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Black History Month watch

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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Did you go to a private school? Or one of those indie schools with a completely different approach to learning?
    Private. But it still had a very different approach to education than most places.
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    The whole point of Black history month in the USA and UK is to show the culture black people had and their history before being wiped clean and brought to their host nations as slaves by force. It is unique in itself
    Yeah black people have suffered oppression throughout history we deserve a month dedicated to us
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Well the slave trade is a pretty massive part of British history.

    .
    It is little more than a footnote.

    The Roman Empire is the basis of our civil administration, political and legal systems..

    The Saxon and Viking invasions of the native Celts created most of our our population.

    The Norman Conquest created the monarchy and aristocracy.

    The Henrician Reformation created our Protestant Ascendancy and was the basis of most of our contemporary culture.

    The Civil War led to Parliamentary Democracy.

    The Industrial Revolution (the first in the world) led to our global economic and military dominance and the creation of the largest Empire the world had ever seen.

    Creating the modern world we now live in, by the way.

    The Transatlantic Slave trade? Compared to the above, it was small beer.
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    My argument is that it is racist to see history in terms of skin pigmentation.

    But if we do, then practically all British history is white.

    For the period between the Roman Conquest and the Second World War (97.5% of the last two thousand years) this country was pretty much entirely populated by white people, and history is a record of their sayings and doings.

    But I don't see how pointing that out, seeing everything in racial terms, helps anyone white or black.

    Doesn't it just promote division between races?

    Look at the comments on this thread.
    preach
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    It is little more than a footnote.

    The Roman Empire is the basis of our civil administration, political and legal systems..

    The Saxon and Viking invasions of the native Celts created most of our our population.

    The Norman Conquest created the monarchy and aristocracy.

    The Henrician Reformation created our Protestant Ascendancy and was the basis of most of our contemporary culture.

    The Civil War led to Parliamentary Democracy.

    The Industrial Revolution (the first in the world) led to our global economic and military dominance and the creation of the largest Empire the world had ever seen.

    Creating the modern world we now live in, by the way.

    The Transatlantic Slave trade? Compared to the above, it was small beer.
    So you are trying to compare one instance of history against thousands of years of history?

    The slave trade was a major factor in what allowed the British Empire to flourish.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    So you are trying to compare one instance of history against thousands of years of history?

    The slave trade was a major factor in what allowed the British Empire to flourish.
    It was a factor. How major is moot.

    How big a factor was it in the flourishing of Canada, India, Australasia, the Far East (if it was at all)?

    What was its role in the flourishing of British Africa (since most of the formal British Empire in Africa post dated the abolition of slavery)?

    Yes the Southern States in the US were slave based economies, but after 1776 that wasn't a factor. There was Jamaica and Barbados and a few other islands.

    The greatest extent of Empire and Britain's global pre eminence occurred AFTER emancipation. You need to explain that inconvenient fact...

    .
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    It was a factor. How major is moot.

    How big a factor was it in the flourishing of Canada, India, Australasia, the Far East (if it was at all)?

    What was its role in the flourishing of British Africa (since most of the formal British Empire in Africa post dated the abolition of slavery)?

    Yes the Southern States in the US were slave based economies, but after 1776 that wasn't a factor. There was Jamaica and Barbados and a few other islands.

    The greatest extent of Empire and Britain's global pre eminence occurred AFTER emancipation. You need to explain that inconvenient fact...

    .
    It was used heavily in the Caribbean which was initially one of Britain's most important and lucrative colonies. This gave the British a strong foothold in the Americas which forced the Dutch out.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    It was used heavily in the Caribbean which was initially one of Britain's most important and lucrative colonies. This gave the British a strong foothold in the Americas which forced the Dutch out.
    So you admit it had little if any role in the growth of Empire in India, the Far East, Australasia and the Scramble for Africa but was big in a couple of tiny Caribbean Islands, and the American colonies pre Independence?

    Umm. Not getting much "major factor in British history" yet.

    Look, I am not saying it wasn't unpleasant for millions of Africans. It was. And of course it aided and helped to finance the early growth of Empire. But as a motive factor in the whole panorama of British history it is Championship, or even League One in importance, not Premiership or Champions League.
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    So you admit it had little if any role in the growth of Empire in India, the Far East, Australasia and the Scramble for Africa but was big in a couple of tiny Caribbean Islands, and the American colonies pre Independence?

    Umm. Not getting much "major factor in British history" yet.

    Look, I am not saying it wasn't unpleasant for millions of Africans. It was. And of course it aided and helped to finance the early growth of Empire. But as a motive factor in the whole panorama of British history it is Championship, or even League One in importance, not Premiership or Champions League.
    It still takes up 300 years of British history. I would say that is fairly major.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    It still takes up 300 years of British history. I would say that is fairly major.
    The period between the fall of Roman Britain and the Norman conquest "took up" twice that. We were invaded and colonised by the Saxons and pillaged by the Vikings, but what else of consequence happened?

    (OK, I have just remembered Christianity was introduced. )

    Apart from that though nothing much happened for six hundred years...
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Private. But it still had a very different approach to education than most places.
    But the teaching still didn't seem to ask you to question the dominant consensus, which is what you parrot, that slavery is a huge part of British history. It didn't seem to get you to think critically, for yourself.

    I would argue this is all a question of emphasis. No-one doubts that the transatlantic slave trade was a great evil, nor that it had a big role in the early Empire. But the focus on it, (sometimes one feels as if it is all British history is about according to the "black history" evangelists!), is disproportionate.

    Consider the Norman Conquest. This was the enslavement of an entire people, the English, by a small group from another country, who took all of the wealth and land and made the natives, who they had conquered in battle their vassals. It was comparable to the enslavement of the Incas and Aztecs by the Spanish.

    The treatment of the slaves was as brutal as in the in the transatlantic slave trade actually, if not more so, since it was a more primitive, lawless time.

    The liege lord had the right to deflower any of his pretty female slaves on her wedding night, before the husband, if any Norman died he was assumed to have been murdered by the English and punishment killings would be carried out in the whole village. There was what we would now call "genocide" in the harrowing of the north.

    This enslavement went on for hundreds of years, and even now there are members of the aristocracy who own large tracts of land, stolen in that conquest. But who learns this in school? Who even knows this slavery happened except a few historians?

    I don't say we shouldn't tell the story of transatlantic slavery, it is a terrible one and of course we should. But an emphasis on it should not crowd out the rest of British history, and I think it does.
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    So you admit it had little if any role in the growth of Empire in India, the Far East, Australasia and the Scramble for Africa but was big in a couple of tiny Caribbean Islands, and the American colonies pre Independence?

    Umm. Not getting much "major factor in British history" yet.

    Look, I am not saying it wasn't unpleasant for millions of Africans. It was. And of course it aided and helped to finance the early growth of Empire. But as a motive factor in the whole panorama of British history it is Championship, or even League One in importance, not Premiership or Champions League.
    I think a stronger word than "unpleasant" is required to describe the treatment of the slaves. smh
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    I think a stronger word than "unpleasant" is required to describe the treatment of the slaves. smh
    Fair enough. Use whatever pejorative word you like, I doubt I would argue. My apologies if I offended you by the use of an infelicitous word.

    Here's another thought for you to consider, though. Do you think that seeing the whole of black experience in the west through the prism of slavery is totally constructive for the black community's self esteem and view of itself?

    I don't know the answer to that myself, but I wonder.

    Of course, you may not accept the premise that it does see everything in terms of slavery? Maybe it just seems like that to a white person?
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    (Original post by chocolate hottie)
    Fair enough. Use whatever pejorative word you like, I doubt I would argue. My apologies if I offended you by the use of an infelicitous word.

    Here's another thought for you to consider, though. Do you think that seeing the whole of black experience in the west through the prism of slavery is totally constructive for the black community's self esteem and view of itself?

    I don't know the answer to that myself, but I wonder.

    Of course, you may not accept the premise that it does see everything in terms of slavery? Maybe it just seems like that to a white person?
    I think you can answer that.
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    Took 78 posts before I learned anything about black history.

    Also, I had no idea BHM existed outside of the US.
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    I think you can answer that.
    I wouldn't have asked you the question if I had the answer, but whatever, please yourself.
 
 
 
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