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Are benefits still too generous in the UK? watch

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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Are benefits still too generous in the UK?

    Considering we attract migrants from relatively poorer countries like Romania, Latvia, Poland etc

    List of benefits people are eligible to receive:
    - Child benefit
    - Tax credits
    - JSA
    - Housing benefits
    etc etc
    Why labour invented this instead of raising the minimum wage to a living wage I cannot understand, I'm ashamed we live in a country with tax credits...
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    I agree, don't judge people. But the overwhelming number of people who are single mothers are those who have slept around, had multiple kids from different partners, all have left them, and are now expecting society to pay for them being irresponsible and frankly easy.
    Can I ask how do you know that? You don't.

    You're also contradicting yourself. You're saying don't judge people and then going on to judge people.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Why labour invented this instead of raising the minimum wage to a living wage I cannot understand, I'm ashamed we live in a country with tax credits...
    Same
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    Yes but JSA is the least generous despite the general hatred towards people without jobs.

    Awful stigma.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Can I ask how do you know that? You don't.

    You're also contradicting yourself. You're saying don't judge people and then going on to judge people.
    PRSOM.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Why labour invented this instead of raising the minimum wage to a living wage I cannot understand, I'm ashamed we live in a country with tax credits...
    In reality Labour didn't invent tax credits. They were merely a re-branding of a system created in 1971 by Ted Heath's government.This was originally called Family Income Supplement; then it was called Family Credit, then Working Families Tax Credit, then Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit. During all these 44 years the system has been run from the same office in Washington Tyne and Wear.

    When New Labour first came to power the Treasury convinced the government that the tax-men were brilliant and the social security people were hopeless and the Revenue nicked control of Child Benefit and what was Family Credit.

    The National Minimum Wage was introduced by Labour but was set low because there was a lot of opposition from small business. Small business leaders have a knee jerk reaction to oppose change in anything that affects their members.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Can I ask how do you know that? You don't.

    You're also contradicting yourself. You're saying don't judge people and then going on to judge people.
    Yes I do. Can I ask how you know that these people are all just unfortunate? You don't. You mention your family marrying criminals and the like; I can't be bothered to really read it but it is exactly that kind of nonsense that is the problem.

    Ladies; stop getting knocked up by criminals, the workshy, etc and I won't judge.

    There will always be some who make excuses for other people but to be honest if society is paying for your upkeep they have the right to judge you. Don't want to be judged? Don't make other people pay for your poor lifestyle choices.

    You can't have your cake and eat it. If you don't want people to judge you than how about you stop living off of their hand outs. The country needs that money for things like national defence, GP's, infrastructure. You know, essential and deserving areas of expenditure.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Yes I do. Can I ask how you know that these people are all just unfortunate? You don't. You mention your family marrying criminals and the like; I can't be bothered to really read it but it is exactly that kind of nonsense that is the problem.

    Ladies; stop getting knocked up by criminals, the workshy, etc and I won't judge.

    There will always be some who make excuses for other people but to be honest if society is paying for your upkeep they have the right to judge you. Don't want to be judged? Don't make other people pay for your poor lifestyle choices.

    You can't have your cake and eat it. If you don't want people to judge you than how about you stop living off of their hand outs. The country needs that money for things like national defence, GP's, infrastructure. You know, essential and deserving areas of expenditure.
    The other person I mentioned is a friend of mine. She has mentioned a few times that she was married when her youngest child was born. Her childs father walked out on her when he was a baby.

    You must have also missed the part where I mentioned that some people are single parents because their partners were killed whilst on duty. I luckily don't know of anyone who this has happened to. But it has happened.

    I have a friend (male, btw) who is a single parent of a severely disabled child. He's a single parent because the child's mother (they were married btw when the child was born) is too ill to bring up their child. I assume you begrudge them the help they get too?

    You need to stop being so judgemental. You don't know peoples stories. You don't know why people are single parents. It's not always because they sleep around. Sometimes, relationships don't work, sometimes their partners are abusive, etc. Need I go on? You don't know their situations.

    I don't know of anyone who chose to be a single parent. Most people I know who are single parents were married when their children were born. Things and people change.

    I can't understand why you judge the single mother; but the not the man who sleeps around and has kids by multiple women? Or is that somehow more acceptable?
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    The other person I mentioned is a friend of mine. She has mentioned a few times that she was married when her youngest child was born. Her childs father walked out on her when he was a baby.
    Don't. Have. Unstable. Relationships. Some will always break down, but the sheer number of divorces today suggest that bad luck is not the case. I do like how you say I don't know what the truth is yet you repeatedly refer to anecdotal examples to prove your points.
    I point to stats like divorce stats (easy to find), you use anecdotal evidence. I prefer my view that is also based on my observations during life as well.
    You must have also missed the part where I mentioned that some people are single parents because their partners were killed whilst on duty. I luckily don't know of anyone who this has happened to. But it has happened.
    Again, this applies to such a small number. And if this happens people often get compensation from their employer. It is kind of a legal requirement. Your attempt to get a situation that applies to a tiny minority to then be applicable for a huge number isn't very convincing.

    I have a friend (male, btw) who is a single parent of a severely disabled child. He's a single parent because the child's mother (they were married btw when the child was born) is too ill to bring up their child. I assume you begrudge them the help they get too?
    No. But again, get the minority and try and apply it to all people. I see where this is going.
    You need to stop being so judgemental. You don't know peoples stories. You don't know why people are single parents. It's not always because they sleep around. Sometimes, relationships don't work, sometimes their partners are abusive, etc. Need I go on? You don't know their situations.
    Again, if you don't want judgement don't live off the proceeds of others. No such thing as a free ride. Again, yes some people are deserving of support. I mentioned right at the start this. Try looking back to my first post. I said;
    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Google Cheryl Prudham.

    Some people can still take the piss, namely because the state will throw money and council homes at anyone who has kids.

    If you are a single person on benefits, you have a tough time. A single disabled person a real tough time.
    If you are a scrounging waste of space all you have to do is open your legs and lie still for about ten minutes to let the local chav knock you up and there you go, a nice income and house. No mortgage comes with it. Want a bigger house and income? Forget an education or promotion, just have another kid. Anyone who thinks this doesn't happen needs to go around and see council estates.
    I clearly said that some have a tough time but others milk the system. But feel free to try and alter what I have said or simply ignore it.
    I don't know of anyone who chose to be a single parent. Most people I know who are single parents were married when their children were born. Things and people change.

    I can't understand why you judge the single mother; but the not the man who sleeps around and has kids by multiple women? Or is that somehow more acceptable?
    There seems to be a recurring theme here;
    1) ignore what I have said right in my first post and on the first page (that some people have a tough time, others a very tough time, others milk it). Proceed to then argue with me for something that I have not even said.
    2) Say I don't know what I am talking about before resorting to "my friend". Well "my friend" and "my other friend" also disagree. Again, this is a numbers thing. Like I have already said, there are some who are genuine but too many who play the system. I never said (and see my original post) that all are playing the system.
    Actually, I said that the genuine under this system are pretty hard done by.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Not all single mothers sleep around. Before she remarried my grandfather, my grandmother was a single mother. Her ex-husband (mum's dad) was in prison. They were married at some point. I have a friend who had 4 children when she was married. She's now divorced.

    I know people who are single mothers because their childs father was killed doing their job, etc.

    You really shouldn't be so quick to judge people.
    Yeah but most of these issues tend to be very common in the white (well..english) community. Mostly because of personal sloppiness, the decline in religion and out of control feminism. Very rarely is this found in Asian neighbourhoods. Some individuals like yourself are unlucky, but mostly again and again white communities seem to be mimicing the latest deviant behaviours one generally sees on programmes such as 'Corrie' et al.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Your idea; none it seems. Or even worse go for a Corbyn style no cap and allow the council estates to become the new Royal Family with the amount they will claim.
    The area will still be a run down dump-You can take the girl out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl idea, but its income will be huge.
    My idea (and from what I understand, Corbyn's too) is that the benefit cap shouldnt exist because it shouldn't need to exist. It arbitrarily places a cap on the amount of benefits one can receive by amount, instead of reforming the system so that they never reach that amount in the first place.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    My idea (and from what I understand, Corbyn's too) is that the benefit cap shouldnt exist because it shouldn't need to exist. It arbitrarily places a cap on the amount of benefits one can receive by amount, instead of reforming the system so that they never reach that amount in the first place.
    That doesn't make any sense. if you intend to keep the amount down at that level anyway, why don't you have a cap in place just in case you don't manage it?

    I'm quite sure Corbyn isn't motivated by an intention to keep benefit payments down without having to rely on a cap.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    That doesn't make any sense. if you intend to keep the amount down at that level anyway, why don't you have a cap in place just in case you don't manage it?

    I'm quite sure Corbyn isn't motivated by an intention to keep benefit payments down without having to rely on a cap.
    Corbyn merely wants an overbearing benefit system in order to win and guarantee votes in the future. Just like any potential Labour leader.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Corbyn merely wants an overbearing benefit system in order to win and guarantee votes in the future. Just like any potential Labour leader.
    To be honest I don't think he's sophisticated enough to have considered electoral strategy. I think he just wants everyone to have free money.

    If you were talking about Blair or Miliband... or Cooper, Burnham, pretty much any competent politician on the labour side, you'd have a point.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    To be honest I don't think he's sophisticated enough to have considered electoral strategy. I think he just wants everyone to have free money.

    If you were talking about Blair or Miliband... or Cooper, Burnham, pretty much any competent politician on the labour side, you'd have a point.
    Agreed seems a bit too idealistic in his socialist utopian dreams.
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    I'm going to disagree with some of you on the single teen mothers point. As much as I think they may be feckless, these people should be commended for increasing the white fertility rate and should therefore be commended, our focus should be on getting a grip on equality of opportunity, I'd even tighten abortion a bit.
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    So, you all criticise single mothers; but not the men who sleep with them? It takes two y'know?
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    I agree, don't judge people. But the overwhelming number of people who are single mothers are those who have slept around, had multiple kids from different partners, all have left them, and are now expecting society to pay for them being irresponsible and frankly easy.
    You do judge people. You do it the next part of your paragraph.

    Do you think we are stupid?

    You can;t just say 'you are not judgmental', then go on a judgmental tirade. It doesn't work like that. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You do judge people. You do it the next part of your paragraph.

    Do you think we are stupid?

    You can;t just say 'you are not judgmental', then go on a judgmental tirade. It doesn't work like that. :rolleyes:
    I'll tell you how it doesn't work; living off the work of other people and not getting judged.
    Don't want me to judge you? Don't go cap in hand to taxpayers.

    And asking whether I think you are stupid...yes I do. From the likes of scrotgrot who believes that others should always pay for his life decisions
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...1#post60222721

    to the logic here;

    The Tories are in power. Thank god. They agree with my view.

    http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4e/4ec2...8d459ef64c.jpg
    http://www.quickmeme.com/img/99/99ab...6f88642eb0.jpg

    No more. And it applies to too many people. I'm glad the Tories are here, they will put a stop to it. And they are doing so. Luckily for the country TSR doesn't' represent the normal society.
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    You might call me a communist or socialist but i think everyody should receive just enough to live based on a standadized cost of everything calculating the flunctuations of prices. Then you add jobs which will give out alot less money but still relative to effort popularity and money made (obviously). The standadized benefits should only cover 90% of living costs though so jobs can be effective in promoting effort or total output (work ) done. This should be also calculated and sport as well as desk jobs should be counted equally but based on what they bring to economies.

    There are many flaws in this but making the money earned alot less can help improve efficency as bigs numbers can introduce inflation. The benefits may be considered a different currency just by providing the basic rights.
 
 
 
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