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Thoughts on the Womens' Equality Party? watch

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    There's a point here which most people seem to be missing.

    For anti-feminists, this is a fantastic development. For so long the same old spiel is reiterated time and time again: not all feminists are like that. It even has its own internet acronym: NAFALT!!!!!

    Now it's impossible to hide behind a cloak of anonymity. There's a feminist party in The UK which can be held to account for its conflation of outcomes with opportunity, its prioritisation of one gender over another, its denunciation of individual liberty, its fallacious reporting on rape and sexual violence, its utilisation of 'white' as a pejorative, and a lot more besides.

    Finally, feminism can, at least partially, be held to account.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    Guys. Seriously.

    I disagree with you on stats with respect to the pay gap. I disagree with you on most things, to be honest. But I still wanted to talk to you. To debate with you. To learn from your views and attempt to help you learn in turn.

    Then one of you called me a fascist, and now I'm really not sure what you came here to achieve. Was it just... to shout at me? To make me change my views? Because I nearly did. I accept your points about higher proportions of men working in low-paid menial jobs. I went and re-checked the pay gap stats. I considered what feminism must look like from the perspective of young, angry men and looked at it again.

    And then you insulted me. And all that hard work was gone.

    I'm doing this as a check. If you really want to debate constructively and informatively, perhaps you will soften your language. If not... well. You probably won't, so I'll let subsequent posts demonstrate for me.
    Here's a constructive question for you: are you really under the impression anyone cares about whether or not you have changed your opinion? You are a subscriber to one of the few remaining socially acceptable religions. You are just as bad as every other adherent to every other faith based, mythological belief system.

    Your sky fairy (the patriarchy) is your own. It really has nothing to do with anyone else. My main disappointment with the religion otherwise referred to as feminism is that it can't articulate a single message without invoking masculinity - it has nothing to say about women independently of men. Absolutely nothing. It's almost as if feminists believe women have no sense of identity until compared and contrasted with masculinity.

    Alas, if you have any self-esteem as a woman whatsoever, you'd want nothing to do with such a movement.
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    (Original post by TheCitizenAct)
    There's a point here which most people seem to be missing.

    For anti-feminists, this is a fantastic development. For so long the same old spiel is reiterated time and time again: not all feminists are like that. It even has its own internet acronym: NAFALT!!!!!

    Now it's impossible to hide behind a cloak of anonymity. There's a feminist party in The UK which can be held to account for its conflation of outcomes with opportunity, its prioritisation of one gender over another, its denunciation of individual liberty, its fallacious reporting on rape and sexual violence, its utilisation of 'white' as a pejorative, and a lot more besides.

    Finally, feminism can, at least partially, be held to account.
    Or it can be dismissed as a fringe radical party no one votes for like most small parties.
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    (Original post by Freyjaeve)
    Some of you may know, there's a brand new political party aiming for total equality in the UK. They are not only trying to make the country better for women (although that is a key part of it) but also for men, people who are BAME, LGBT and basically everyone!

    Their policies document can be found here, I'm really interested as a founding member to see what you all think.
    I'm very interested but also a little concerned that as with UKIP (for example), they represent a singular issue which puts me off a bit.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Or it can be dismissed as a fringe radical party no one votes for like most small parties.
    There's nothing fringe about a party which has more members than the party which came third in the popular vote at the last GE. They'll barely accrue any vote share whatsoever in 2020, but when we have a criticism to make - and there are lots of them! - at least we have a target for it.
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    (Original post by TheCitizenAct)
    There's nothing fringe about a party which has more members that the party which came third in the popular vote at the last GE. They'll barely accrue any vote share whatsoever in 2020, but when we have a criticism to make - and there are lots of them! - at least we have a target for it.
    It will change nothing. There wont be a big mass awakening and realization of what feminism 'really is'. Nor will it mean we become like Sweden.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It will change nothing. There wont be a big mass awakening and realization of what feminism 'really is'. Nor will it mean we become like Sweden.
    Of course it won't change anything. However, that's not my point. My point is simple: there's a tangible political party, with a leader and thousands of members, we can criticise. No more anonymity.

    It's time for a grown up discussion in the public sphere.
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    (Original post by SaltyCucumber)
    If you're aiming for total equality then naming yourselves the Women's Equality Party seems rather odd. I recognise that most of the issues surrounding gender are to do with female inequality but they're sending the wrong kind of message out with that name. Why not simply the Equality Party?
    Thats why matriarchs are labelled feminists etc, feminism needs a new name as does this party.
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    (Original post by ZoëC)
    Thats why matriarchs are labelled feminists etc, feminism needs a new name as does this party.
    Welcome to another socially acceptable religion: moral relativism.

    Who's up for forming the white people's equality party? Oh, wait...
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    (Original post by TheCitizenAct)
    Welcome to another socially acceptable religion: moral relativism.

    Who's up for forming the white people's equality party? Oh, wait...

    well in that case at least call it women's equity, as feminists we wont be accepted and perhaps swallowing our pride over a name could do a lot more good for the cause than letting it suffer because we aren't taken seriously.

    look at the civil rights movement, I wouldn't exist if black supremacy was interpreted as a forefront, we dont distinguish ourselves enough from matriarchy
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    (Original post by ZoëC)
    well in that case at least call it women's equity, as feminists we wont be accepted and perhaps swallowing our pride over a name could do a lot more good for the cause than letting it suffer because we aren't taken seriously.

    look at the civil rights movement, I wouldn't exist if black supremacy was interpreted as a forefront, we dont distinguish ourselves enough from matriarchy
    You think a name is why you aren't accepted? It's not.

    You aren't accepted because there are prominent feminists who pathologise masculinity, who treat the term 'white' like a pejorative, who have nothing to say about femininity outside of a comparison to masculinity, who believe we live in a society resembling a rape culture, who utilise terms like 'privilege' to shut down all contrary opinion, who conflate opportunity with outcome, and who peddle the very same prejudices they claim they oppose.

    It has nothing to do with the name of the movement and everything to do with the behaviour of those who co-opt the name.
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    (Original post by TheCitizenAct)
    You think a name is why you aren't accepted? It's not.

    You aren't accepted because there are prominent feminists who pathologise masculinity, who treat the term 'white' like a pejorative, who have nothing to say about femininity outside of a comparison to masculinity, who believe we live in a society resembling a rape culture, who utilise terms like 'privilege' to shut down all contrary opinion, who conflate opportunity with outcome, and who peddle the very same prejudices they claim they oppose.

    It has nothing to do with the name of the movement and everything to do with the behaviour of those who co-opt the name.
    of course I understand that, but if we adopt the mindset of the average and unfortunately ignorant person, they generalise by these sometimes self sabotaging terms to the point that feminism is defined as matriarchy despite it being nowhere near, we have a hard argument to win, many men don't understand that feminism is there for them too, and there are so many women who don't feel supported, or are ignored because they're non binary or don't feel oppressed in the same way as their advocates etc. Because oppression is not categorisable, we can't solve it all by giving women the vote etc, because for some that really isn't what they need, and because a lot of us are so bogged down in this competition with men, we end up making enemies with our supporters, and downplay the seriousness of the cause by allowing it to be presented as a petty girls vs boys game.
 
 
 
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