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B879 - Capital Punishment Bill 2015 watch

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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    I don't see your point as regards deterrence. I'm all for criminal justice, I just don't think any additional value is served by punishing people more than the bare minimum required to achieve legitimate aims. Your second point also indicates you have very little concept of what retributivism is. The fact that a punishment causes suffering to the punishment does not, in itself, make it retributive. A retributivist believes that there is intrinsic value in the suffering of the guilty over and above the instrumental values served by these other goals; I feel quite strongly opposed to this point of view.

    I don't oppose 'state mandated slavery'. Peoples' liberty is overrated and I think expansion of the powers of the state to intrude into citizens lives would be a good thing if instrumentally justified. I'm quite an iconoclast in my party for holding these beliefs.
    Do you also advocate slavery by private individuals? If not, then why is it okay for the state to do it and not an individual?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So the liberal and Labour members disagreeing with the concept that two wrings make a right weren't actually disagreeing with the idea that two wrongs make a right?

    And the amount of time on death row in the US would be irelevant to the bill, unless the average appeal were 15 years long the time on death row would be a lot shorter under this bill
    So the justice system is nothing more than two wrongs make a right and anyone who doesn't agree with that statement doesn't believe in justice?

    No, the amount of time spent on death row isn't irrelevant. The bulk of this time is the appeals process, you half-arse that and more innocent people die. Innocent human life seems to mean nothing to some members of this house and that terrifying and disgusting in equal measure.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    So the justice system is nothing more than two wrongs make a right and anyone who doesn't agree with that statement doesn't believe in justice?

    No, the amount of time spent on death row isn't irrelevant. The bulk of this time is the appeals process, you half-arse that and more innocent people die. Innocent human life seems to mean nothing to some members of this house and that terrifying and disgusting in equal measure.
    If two wrongs don't make a right, then surely the justice system should not use a second wrong; if the justice system should not use a second wrong then there should be no justice system.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    If two wrongs don't make a right, then surely the justice system should not use a second wrong; if the justice system should not use a second wrong then there should be no justice system.
    So that's a yes? You believe that the only principle of the justice system is punishment? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    So that's a yes? You believe that the only principle of the justice system is punishment? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.
    Tell me about a justice system that you 100% believe in that does not involve "wrongs".
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Tell me about a justice system that you 100% believe in that does not involve "wrongs".
    Tell me about a justice system that you 100% believe in that involves nothing but 'wrongs'.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Tell me about a justice system that you 100% believe in that involves nothing but 'wrongs'.
    I'll take tht to mean you can't, and wrongs according to whom? Simplest answer would be all of the ones in use, pretty much
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I'll take tht to mean you can't, and wrongs according to whom? Simplest answer would be all of the ones in use, pretty much
    Well, you took that right, I'm not denying that punishment should be a part of a criminal justice system, in balance with protection of the public and rehabilitation. You seem to be ever more increasingly asserting that these things don't exist in a criminal justice system.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Well, you took that right, I'm not denying that punishment should be a part of a criminal justice system, in balance with protection of the public and rehabilitation. You seem to be ever more increasingly asserting that these things don't exist in a criminal justice system.
    As far as I am aware, there is no justice system that anybody on here, beyond the maddest of the mad, would accept that does not involve elements that those people disagree with if it were a private indivudal doing it, for example execution is murder, fines is theft, community service is slaver, etc. Of course, the thing that people are doing wrong is declaring execution to be wrong because killing people is wrong, well I expect they would say theft, slavery, and forced imprisonment is also wrong, so their belief runs inherently contrary to any justice system they believe in. Saying execution is wrong because killing people wrong is the most absurd argument there is when it comes to criminal justice
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    (Original post by Wellzi)
    Paedophiles who have actively "interfered" shall we say with children. Having thoughts however, should not, they should however come forward and seek help without fear of punishment.

    Acting on such fantasies is abhorrent, and once they've gone that far no amount of therapy will help them. Those who don't respond to therapy, whether they've committed such interferences or not, should be chemically castrated to remove the risk alltogether.
    That's absolutely barbaric and unjustifiable.
    Punishing innocent paedophiles is firstly punishing them for crimes they haven't committed, and is introducing something akin to thought-crime, no matter how much you may disagree with these "thoughts", so to speak.

    That isn't justice, that's authoritarian.

    Does that mean that people should be genetically profiled at birth and those who are more predisposed to psychopathy should be jailed indefinitely?

    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    The fact it took several pages for somebody to correctly address the meaning of paedophilia saddens me.
    I wish I was here on this thread a lot sooner now.
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    Birchington By the way, sorry if I came across with passive aggression in my post. That's just the way I present myself in debates.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Birchington By the way, sorry if I came across with passive aggression in my post. That's just the way I present myself in debates.
    Please change your avatar. It triggers me.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Please change your avatar. It triggers me.
    You never said anything about my old avatar
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Please change your avatar. It triggers me.
    As in it makes you horny, and it disrupts you/is counter-productive to your work and studying?
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    You never said anything about my old avatar
    It wasn't as graphic and clearly photoshopped so I was just looking elsewhere.

    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    As in it makes you horny, and it disrupts you/is counter-productive to your work and studying?
    No, it's traumatic, makes me feel anxious and triggers my PTSD. How is that funny?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Please change your avatar. It triggers me.
    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    As in it makes you horny, and it disrupts you/is counter-productive to your work and studying?
    Please don't change your avatar. It's amazing
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    It wasn't as graphic and clearly photoshopped so I was just looking elsewhere.



    No, it's traumatic, makes me feel anxious and triggers my PTSD. How is that funny?
    May I ask, how does that trigger your PTSD?
    And I'm sorry; I never knew about that. I thought it was simply you didn't like two men kissing for reasons probably like homosexuality is wrong/makes me more uncomfortable than a man and a woman kissing.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)

    That isn't justice, that's authoritarian.
    A justice system is inherently authoritarian...
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    A justice system is inherently authoritarian...
    Perhaps authoritarian wasn't the best word to use...

    Einen Moment bitte, an einen besseren Wort zu denken.
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    I can't believe I'm only seeing this bill now!

    NO!
 
 
 
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