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    (Original post by Blackstarr)
    They have made things harder now, for instance to be a nurse you actually need to go uni and get a degree where as before it was not like that, you could just do a diploma and get though.

    Things are changing and that is why there is a lot of inequality within education.

    Also, student loans will make you have lots of debt especially if you live in London as the rent is soo high.

    I feel like I have made my point and made it clear.

    #Case closed.

    Yes I am aware as I used to recruit nurses. Please do some research. You get a higher loan if you live in London to help with this and there are plenty of part time jobs in London.

    Putting 'case closed' adds zero force to your extremely poorly researched 'arguments'. Good luck in nursing interviews when you don't understand how the NHS works.

    I saw you're doing a BTEC...that explains A LOT.
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    Solution: Keep applying to Oxbridge until you get in. Other unis not worth it IMO.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Yes I am aware as I used to recruit nurses. Please do some research. You get a higher loan if you live in London to help with this and there are plenty of part time jobs in London.

    Putting 'case closed' adds zero force to your extremely poorly researched 'arguments'. Good luck in nursing interviews when you don't understand how the NHS works.

    I saw you're doing a BTEC...that explains A LOT.
    If you say so.

    Tbh, the focus on this thread was bout uni tuition fees and I have put my point across clearly.
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    (Original post by Blackstarr)
    If you say so.

    Tbh, the focus on this thread was bout uni tuition fees and I have put my point across clearly.
    Yes you have - but your point is awful and I have contested it with reasoned arguments, to which you have no reply. Saying 'oooh case closed' doesn't mean you are right and adds nothing to your argument. It just means you cannot argue back when people have a response to your views. It's a good thing you're not going into law.
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    As a visiting fellow at a university (electronic engineering) I can assure you that students are paying for a piece of paper more than anything else. Over 90% of what students do is self study which they can do equally well in their own living room without having to enrol at a university. At £9000 a year buying your own electronic test equipment starts to look like a very good investment.

    The truth behind the rise in tuition fees is to pay for a black hole in pensions of retired lecturers that most students will never meet.

    Online educational courses and institutions have the potential to condemn much of the bricks and mortar university complex to the scrapheap of history. The most significant barriers are snobbery from employers who won't accept qualifications from these institutions and students who want to attend university for the social life.
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    (Original post by Arran90)
    As a visiting fellow at a university (electronic engineering) I can assure you that students are paying for a piece of paper more than anything else. Over 90% of what students do is self study which they can do equally well in their own living room without having to enrol at a university. At £9000 a year buying your own electronic test equipment starts to look like a very good investment.

    The truth behind the rise in tuition fees is to pay for a black hole in pensions of retired lecturers that most students will never meet.

    Online educational courses and institutions have the potential to condemn much of the bricks and mortar university complex to the scrapheap of history. The most significant barriers are snobbery from employers who won't accept qualifications from these institutions and students who want to attend university for the social life.
    Exactly this.
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    (Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34733096



    Is this a return to a two tier system where the best education is a reserve for the wealthiest?
    If student finance won't help above £9k then yes I do think it'll devolve back into only wealthy people having that opportunity.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Yes you have - but your point is awful and I have contested it with reasoned arguments, to which you have no reply. Saying 'oooh case closed' doesn't mean you are right and adds nothing to your argument. It just means you cannot argue back when people have a response to your views. It's a good thing you're not going into law.
    I have reposed to your messages so, don't really know what you are on about.

    The poster below me has said it all.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So equality of opportunity slips ever further into the distance. There are certain professions that gets shut down to the working and lower middle class. That's the point I'm making. Also working class kids who's parent did not go to uni are more likely to get dazzled by the drive to get everyone into uni. My parents new the importance fo the subject in employability afterwards, Mum did history, had to train as an accountant, Dad did chemistry and walked into a job. So I learned form their experience. (I know I am unemployed but physics is considered an employable subject :rolleyes:) Working class kids who's parents know none of this are more likely to end up doing degrees that are less likely t lead to graduate employment.
    Me. Neither parent went to uni.

    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    When there are countries like Denmark that manage to pay their students, never mind a debt free system I will never get behind the way we are going with regards to higher education. It is a choice, not a necessity. Current tuition levels don't even over the entire cost of courses anyway, especially in the 'useful' science/enginnering/medicine subjects even if the graduates pay it all back, which they are not obliged too if they never earn enough. What do you want? A move to increased debt and mandatory repayment like in america?

    My main objection to it is that perpetuates an unequal society to be even more unequal in opportunity and outcome.
    I don't think we ought to go beyond the system we have now. It's a shame if this government increases tuition fees and it's a shame that the coalition increased them since I graduated. But, that being said, I stand by my point that the tax payer should not be funding useless degrees. I'm of the 3K per year generation. I'll be part of the 9K per year generation when I start my next degree. I'm 'happy' to pay back my first degree because 1. It's income contingent (and I've never made repayments because I've never earned above the threshold) 2. It hasn't led to graduate employment and it's only 'benefited' me, not taxpayers.

    In no way am I saying that I think it's okay for 18 year olds to be saddled with tens of thousands of pounds of debt - but things don't come for free - someone needs to pay for the facilities and the lecturers, the resources etc. As a UK taxpayer, I'm happy for my taxes to be paying for those things for degree courses which lead to useful jobs for our economy, such as Medicine or Nursing etc. I'm not happy for my taxes to be paying for facilities/resources etc for useless degree courses which don't lead to graduate jobs. Not just because it's my wages, more to the point: because it's wrong for young people to be mislead so massively - I was one of them. Tuition fees makes young people think a lot more about what they're doing with their lives. If my Philosophy course had been 9K per year, I very much doubt that I would have even applied to it and that would have been a good thing because then I would have done a vocational course sooner and become a healthcare professional sooner - paid more taxes sooner, contributed to the UK economy sooner and for longer etc.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    You haven't responded to the points I have made properly. Back to your BTEC.
    What BTEC?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    So equality of opportunity slips ever further into the distance. There are certain professions that gets shut down to the working and lower middle class. That's the point I'm making. Also working class kids who's parent did not go to uni are more likely to get dazzled by the drive to get everyone into uni. My parents new the importance fo the subject in employability afterwards, Mum did history, had to train as an accountant, Dad did chemistry and walked into a job. So I learned form their experience. (I know I am unemployed but physics is considered an employable subject :rolleyes:) Working class kids who's parents know none of this are more likely to end up doing degrees that are less likely t lead to graduate employment.

    When there are countries like Denmark that manage to pay their students, never mind a debt free system I will never get behind the way we are going with regards to higher education. It is a choice, not a necessity. Current tuition levels don't even over the entire cost of courses anyway, especially in the 'useful' science/enginnering/medicine subjects even if the graduates pay it all back, which they are not obliged too if they never earn enough. What do you want? A move to increased debt and mandatory repayment like in america?

    My main objection to it is that perpetuates an unequal society to be even more unequal in opportunity and outcome.

    Edit: I've just been looking into it and countries in the European economic area can get free degrees at Denmark... I wonder how that is for post grad... Their science courses are in English as well.
    Yeah, about a year ago I was looking into post grad in Europe and got myself set on a neurology course in Germany taught in English and it'd be completely free. Plus the university is awesome.

    Though I doubt I'll be going. At least not for a long time for varying non education related reasons.
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    nooo
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    Well it's not a surprise after all we are living in Tory Britain
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    (Original post by serebro)
    I have done my A levels, now studying at university.
    Why so naive then?
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Yes I am aware as I used to recruit nurses. Please do some research. You get a higher loan if you live in London to help with this and there are plenty of part time jobs in London.

    Putting 'case closed' adds zero force to your extremely poorly researched 'arguments'. Good luck in nursing interviews when you don't understand how the NHS works.

    I saw you're doing a BTEC...that explains A LOT.
    BTECs have much better employability statistics than A levels for both graduates and non graduates.

    I did a BTEC and I'm a second year at a top 20 uni on track for a first in Computer Science, the BTEC I did was much better preparation than the equivalent A level courses (Computing, IT etc.).

    Sometimes taking practical subjects is more beneficial I question why you would judge someone for making a clearly good choice? A levels mean nothing past just getting into university, BTEC provides that aswell as giving you tangible, practical skills that will still benefit you when you go into the workplace, working full time is much harder than sitting in a classroom for a few hours a week trust me, and the skills you acquire make the transition from education to work much easier.
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    (Original post by yt7777)
    BTECs have much better employability statistics than A levels for both graduates and non graduates.

    I did a BTEC and I'm a second year at a top 20 uni on track for a first in Computer Science, the BTEC I did was much better preparation than the equivalent A level courses (Computing, IT etc.).

    Sometimes taking practical subjects is more beneficial I question why you would judge someone for making a clearly good choice? A levels mean nothing past just getting into university, BTEC provides that aswell as giving you tangible, practical skills that will still benefit you when you go into the workplace, working full time is much harder than sitting in a classroom for a few hours a week trust me, and the skills you acquire make the transition from education to work much easier.
    I said it explains a lot because BTECs are more vocational which explains why the person I was talking to seemed to prefer the nursing diploma over the nursing degree as the diploma is known for being more vocational than the degree option.

    [e] I have been in full time work since July 2014 so please don't preach to the choir. I also find working much easier than studying and I did a law degree/am currently in a management position so opinions on that point clearly vary.
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    (Original post by Student403)
    I'm still p***ed off that, although I'm a UK passport holder and have lived there for several years, just because my parents came out to the middle east for their work, I have to pay 26k a year.
    Were they paying tax back to the UK government?
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Were they paying tax back to the UK government?
    Not at this time. But this 3 year period right before going off to uni seems unfair. They have lived there with me and paid taxes for 3 years. Just not the ones leading up to now.
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    "Why should people pay for someone else to go to university?"

    It's quite disappointing how frequently I've seen this kind of ignorant, narrow-minded and self-serving line in the thread.

    I'm sure all of those doctors, scientists and engineers produced by universities contribute absolutely nothing to your general well-being right?

    Education should be seen as a common good that benefits the entirety of society so to think that university solely benefits the student is a ridiculously short-term way of thinking. It would be very unwise to increasingly raise fees to prohibitive levels that dissuade students from going to university.

    Many people on this thread seem to have a complete disconnect with real life if they think such humongous loans are nothing to worry about. Students will end up being over 50k in debt before they even start their career. How will this affect them starting a family, buying a house or a car - things previous generations pretty much took for granted as normal adult life.

    Students may only start paying the loans back after they start earning over 21k but someone spending the majority of their career earning around 25-35k will feel this loan as a huge burden. People need to remember that not all students go on to be bankers earning 80k+ a year. Research scientists and engineers salaries rarely rise above 40k yet these two groups provide vital services to the country. Not only that - many middling jobs now require a degree so the people saying "oh they should just get a job after secondary school" clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

    Apprenticeships used to be an option for school leavers but now the majority of them are only available in the retail sector who use them as a way to pay poverty wages to shelf stackers - who of course are learning a vital skill that will lead to a long and prosperous career :rolleyes:

    Why have people in this country suddenly forgot about the common good? It seems like we're slowly moving away from a more collective European mentality to that of America - one of the most unequal societies in the western world.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    You haven't responded to the points I have made properly. Back to your BTEC.
    Snob alert snob alert snob alert *siren*


    Let me ask you a serious question - why are you such a ****?
 
 
 
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