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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you spoken to every single female muslim who wears a Burqa and asked why it is, and they have all said because their husband/father forces them to?
    If women choose to wear the burqa or the niqab, they are showing that they have failed to assimilate into British society. They can follow whatever religion they like, but they should not do things that contradict British culture. Obscuring one's face in public for the sake of a foreign culture when talking to someone contradicts British culture, as it is basic etiquette in British culture to show one's face when speaking to another person. As I have already said, it is not required in the Quran, any Hadith, or any other Islamic text to wear a burqa or a niqab in public, so people who wear the niqab or the burqa wear it for mainly cultural reasons (from a non-British culture) and not religious reasons, which shows that they have failed to assimilate by embracing the culture of another place. They only need to wear the Hijab, which is not a face covering, and does not contradict British culture. If these people believe so strongly in wearing the niqab or the burqa, they should move to a country wear it is part of the culture to wear them, for example, Saudi Arabia.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you spoken to every single female muslim who wears a Burqa and asked why it is, and they have all said because their husband/father forces them to?
    Of course not. However, I have worn a balaclava and I can't believe that a rational human being would make the choice to wear this all day long, especially in summer.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    *looks at the scriptures the core tenants of western law is based off*
    oops...
    What are you talking about? Does the law punish people with stoning and whipping?
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Because if you have read Life_peer's comment on Islam being a hateful religion and so on you would definitely know that they have never known properly a real Muslim person.

    " This bill applies to everyone, regardless of their race or ethnicity, so this bill is not singling anybody out."
    Come on, this bill is from UKIP, one of the most bigoted parties there is.
    First of all, UKIP is not a bigoted party whatsoever. Secondly, if UKIP is truly a bigoted party, you have still failed to address what is wrong with the bill without using an ad hominem non-argument by simply attacking it for being from UKIP. Burqas and Niqabs are not even required under Islam, so how does this go against Islam? And you cannot associate banning face coverings with the right-wing. If you look at the comments for this bill, there are Tories who are against this. On the other hand, you have got people from Labour and the Liberals supporting this.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Of course not. However, I have worn a balaclava and I can't believe that a rational human being would make the choice to wear this all day long, especially in summer.


    What are you talking about? Does the law punish people with stoning and whipping?
    A balaclava is likely a lot warmer than a burqa

    My point is that the exact same reason that some muslim countries do such things is the exact same reason that we used to have "barbaric" punishments, because that it what their holy text endorses, I remember there being a lot "shall surely be put to death" in the bible for relatively trivial things.
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    I am going to have to disagree with you on this, as I am strongly against multiculturalism. Immigrants to the UK should assimilate into British society and give up their old culture, or we may end up with a culture where Sharia law is acceptable. As for the your point about a third generation Jamaican, where did anyone say that a third generation Jamaican does not belong here if he grows up here and embraces British culture?
    How can you make the leap to Sharia law from this? And the same goes for Muslims
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    (Original post by thehistorybore)
    How can you make the leap to Sharia law from this? And the same goes for Muslims
    If you get many people from a culture that teaches Islam in its seventh century form, and these people fail to assimilate, there may eventually be enough people who agree with Sharia law to make it seem acceptable. They do not need to spread out around the whole country. Instead, they only need to target areas like Tower Hamlets, Luton, or Bradford to get enough people to support Sharia law so that these places may end up having councils controlled by extreme-Islamists, not to mention that some Labour-run councils already turn a blind eye to people like this, so you end up with a situation like in Rotherham.

    Watch this if you want to get an idea of what I am talking about:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgKMI1wV0ps
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    *looks at the scriptures the core tenants of western law is based off*
    oops...
    omg that made me laugh too much
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    And you cannot associate banning face coverings with the right-wing. If you look at the comments for this bill, there are Tories who are against this. On the other hand, you have got people from Labour and the Liberals supporting this.
    You've contradicted yourself there....massively.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    A balaclava is likely a lot warmer than a burqa

    My point is that the exact same reason that some muslim countries do such things is the exact same reason that we used to have "barbaric" punishments, because that it what their holy text endorses, I remember there being a lot "shall surely be put to death" in the bible for relatively trivial things.
    The difference is: we do not follow those teachings where we have "barbaric" punishments anymore, while you get a sizable number of Muslims who follow Islam in its seventh century form.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    You've contradicted yourself there....massively.
    Where? I have not contradicted myself.
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    The difference is: we do not follow those teachings where we have "barbaric" punishments anymore, while you get a sizable number of Muslims who follow Islam in its seventh century form.
    some people do and not all muslims do.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    some people do and not all muslims do.
    Yes, and the Muslims who do not wear the niqab or the burqa tend to be the more moderate ones, so Muslims who have assimilated into British society need not worry.
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    Yes, and the Muslims who do not wear the niqab or the burqa tend to be the more moderate ones, so Muslims who have assimilated into British society need not worry.
    well no, because even some/most moderates wear burqas. Wearing one does not single you out as an islamic fundamentalist.
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    Where? I have not contradicted myself.
    "And you cannot associate banning face coverings with the right-wing. If you look at the comments for this bill, there are Tories who are against this. On the other hand, you have got people from Labour and the Liberals supporting this."

    Tories & UKIP = Right wing
    Liberals = middle
    Labour, Socialist, Green Parties = Left wing

    Find me at least 2 left wingers supporting this.
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    There is no universal freedom to wear what you want (or do not want) in this country, so the downsides of face coverings outweigh any non-existent notion that there is a freedom to wear what you want, in my view.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    "And you cannot associate banning face coverings with the right-wing. If you look at the comments for this bill, there are Tories who are against this. On the other hand, you have got people from Labour and the Liberals supporting this."

    Tories & UKIP = Right wing
    Liberals = middle
    Labour, Socialist, Green Parties = Left wing

    Find me at least 2 left wingers supporting this.
    Saracen's Fez and cranbrook_aspie
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    (Original post by United1892)
    well no, because even some/most moderates wear burqas. Wearing one does not single you out as an islamic fundamentalist.
    No, but it does sow societal division and propagate a misogynist symbol in a society that is trying to do away with misogyny.

    I get that those on the left and liberal spectrum want to promote the freedom to wear what you want, but it is disheartening to see them venture into the realms of apologism and defence of a misogynist symbol that isn't even a religious requirement.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    No, but it does sow societal division and propagate a misogynist symbol in a society that is trying to do away with misogyny.

    I get that those on the left want to promote the freedom to wear what you want, but it is disheartening to see them venture into the realms of apologism and defence of a misogynist symbol that isn't even a religious requirement.
    I don't agree with them wearing what they're wearing but I will defend their right to wear it. If people want to wear KKK outfits so long as they are not actively being racist then it is fine with me.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    "And you cannot associate banning face coverings with the right-wing. If you look at the comments for this bill, there are Tories who are against this. On the other hand, you have got people from Labour and the Liberals supporting this."

    Tories & UKIP = Right wing
    Liberals = middle
    Labour, Socialist, Green Parties = Left wing

    Find me at least 2 left wingers supporting this.
    United1892 has given you the names. Now, please do not accuse me of contradicting myself if I have not done so.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    well no, because even some/most moderates wear burqas. Wearing one does not single you out as an islamic fundamentalist.
    As I have explained earlier in this debate, I do not feel that those who wear the burqa or the niqab in public have successfully assimilated into British society, as they are cultural items and not religious items.
 
 
 
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