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Are ISIS muslims? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Are ISIS militants MUSLIMS?
    Yes.
    124
    42.91%
    No.
    77
    26.64%
    They are muslims. But not "true" muslims
    71
    24.57%
    Idk
    17
    5.88%

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    The Qu'ran doesn't consider ISIS as Muslims and clearly condemn groups like them. Research 'Khwarij ISIS' on Google and it will tell you everything you need to know about ISIS and how they are not Islamic.

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    People don't understand. You think everyone who claims to be a Muslim is allowed to be one? By the law it may work like that but spiritually and according to the Qu'ran (The book that Islam and Muslims revolve around ) states specific things someone must do or not do in order to religiously be a Muslim. For example the Qu'ran states that someone who claims to be a Muslim and doesn't pray regularly is not a Muslim by the Qu'ran. It's not a matter of anyone can be Muslim if they say so. And the things that ISIS do are included on that list which exclude you from Islam
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    (Original post by SHBKhan)
    People don't understand. You think everyone who claims to be a Muslim is allowed to be one? By the law it may work like that but spiritually and according to the Qu'ran (The book that Islam and Muslims revolve around ) states specific things someone must do or not do in order to religiously be a Muslim. For example the Qu'ran states that someone who claims to be a Muslim and doesn't pray regularly is not a Muslim by the Qu'ran. It's not a matter of anyone can be Muslim if they say so. And the things that ISIS do are included on that list which exclude you from Islam
    Going by that point, hardly anyone is a Muslim. Because 1.5 billion Muslims do not all pray 5 times a day, every day, along with obey every single rule that is in the hadith and Qur'an. The actual number of Muslims is a lot, lot lower than 1.5 billion. Essentially, you have just claimed takfir on a significant proportion of the "Muslim" population.Would you agree?
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    In this situation, yes.

    You can't differentiate with a self-identified label like this which they believe.

    The same as if they called themselves Christians, and believed themselves to be Christians (them associating with something of Christianity, like the bible), then yes, they would be Christians. Even if they don't follow what people would generally say are the practices/beliefs of Christianity.

    I don't think it's the same as a scientific term, instead of a self-identified label. Hard to explain.
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    I cant believe some muslims have the gall to call ISIS non-muslims. You never know whos muslim and whos not, there's so many different sects and ways people carry out the religion.

    I think what you're trying to say OP is 'Are ISIS true muslims'. Then it depends on what you define as a true muslim. If they pray to Allah and consider Muhammed as his messenger, who are we to say they aren't? However one thing is certain; some of the acts they commit are indeed major sins in Islam.

    P.S: I'm not defending ISIS. Just offering a different perspective.
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    I agree that many Muslims who say they are today are only Muslim by their official state records. By the Qu'ran they are not.

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    (Original post by SHBKhan)
    The Qu'ran doesn't consider ISIS as Muslims and clearly condemn groups like them. Research 'Khwarij ISIS' on Google and it will tell you everything you need to know about ISIS and how they are not Islamic.

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    The Koran is a book. it isn't a thinking being. What do you mean the Koran doesn't view them as true Muslims? It is just a book and people who follow it are Muslims. Of course some people can interpret it in a way that many Muslims do not, but these people are still Muslim.

    And as for the Koran rejecting them are you sure it does so in such a clear manner?

    Are they fighting a holy war and thus if they die by default going into the very highest rung of heaven? The Koran says such people will go to heaven.

    Are they not attacking the non-believers? The Koran promotes this.

    Do they keep slaves? The Koran describes these people as the spoils of war, it is permitted.

    I could go on. But the truth of the matter is that they are Muslim and they try and justify their position by saying it is in the Koran.
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    Just as some books state rules in which you must follow to become a member of a certain group and what rules you can't break the Qu'ran includes rules you must follow in order to be Muslim. You're being very vague. I'm 100% positive the Qu'ran condemns them and states they are not Muslims. Google ISIS Khwarij.

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    And still people can't understand the Islamic view on what ISIS really are in Islam's eyes because they don't understand what the Qu'ran says and what it means. I'm a Muslim and I have studied this topic for years and years in regards to terrorist groups and I understand that the Qu'ran clearly and easily defies them

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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    You have shown me evidence that it is a great sin to kill in Islam. You have not shown me evidence that killing is an automatic debarring from Islam, or that by definition Muslims cannot kill. Forbidding something is not the same as automatic disqualification.

    Read through my posts in this thread to understand my point. I have already addressed your above points.
    There is a tale in the Koran of a man who murders many people but is allowed into heaven as he repented at the last moment. Sort of like the bible equivalent of the prodigal son.Killing is by no means a disqualification. Same as in the bible-it is up to God to judge, murders can get in and non-murders can go to hell.

    And killing is not forbidden in Islam-fighting a holy war is a guaranteed way to get to the very highest level of heaven, it is virtually exclusively reserved for jihadis due to the difficulty in attaining such high standards in your life. Compared to Allah all of us by default are like dirty cloths the Koran says, we are all sinners. It is not likely at all our souls, like dirty rags compared to Allah, would get to this level. Not without fighting a holy war anyway.

    We could talk about the scripture all day-this idea it forbids murder, slavery, etc is completely wrong.
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    There is also a story where a women locked up a cat and didn't feed it. She was sent to hell for doing so. It is very important to understand context of when certain things are said because the Qu'ran is continuous in verses and eveything is related it takes a skilled person to understand it and that's why there are so many scholars who are highly regarded.

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    (Original post by SHBKhan)
    There is also a story where a women locked up a cat and didn't feed it. She was sent to hell for doing so. It is very important to understand context of when certain things are said because the Qu'ran is continuous in verses and eveything is related it takes a skilled person to understand it and that's why there are so many scholars who are highly regarded.

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    Oh I understand the context fine. The Koran is very clear when it comes to talking about the areas I have mentioned (jihad, non-believers, slavery).

    You can come up with some cat story, we are not talking about cats. If we want to know what the Koran says about how to get into heaven, in particular the highest level, we read what the Koran says about getting into said paradise. It talks in great length about this, much more than the Bible in my view. We have a lot of material to read that is 100% relevant to the topic at hand. What we don't do is read some random irrelevant cat story and try and learn how to get in to heaven from that. The cat cannot fight or be fought in jihad, it is not a kuffar or non believer, it can never be a slave, it is a stupid comparison to make.

    If we want to know what the Koran says about a topic, we look to see what it says about that topic. We don't look to see what is says about an unrelated topic and try and twist it to fit our agenda. Indeed such blatant twisting and avoiding the common sense solution takes a very skilled scholar, I will give you that.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    No. Just because I could claim I'm Megan Fox's boyfriend, that doesn't make it true, especially if Megan herself says I'm not.
    To be a Muslim you must identify yourself as a Muslim. You must believe in at least some of the views of Islam. This is seen through the Koran, a book which is just that; a non-living book.

    Being Megan Fox's boyfriend requires more than just believing in what she says. It is not something which is soley dependent on you. Also she is a human being and has a say in whether you have a relationship with her, a non-living book on the other hand is not going to speak out and say who is Muslim or not any time soon.

    Amusing comparison yes, I give you that, but not remotely justifying your answer of no.
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    No True Scotsman


    'True' Muslims attempt to avoid being associated with ISIS by asserting that no true member of Islam would do such a thing. Yet ISIS follows the Qu'ran like any other Muslim, albeit interpreting it differently.

    ISIS are therefore Muslims, but in the wrong sense of the term.
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    30% of people think ISLAMIC State of Iraq and the Levant aren't Muslim. There are some bright sparks in the thread.
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    They claim to be muslim, however if you study Islam in depth from the right people, you will come to realise that it's not what the religion actually teaches them. I guess you have to go with the fact that Islam is perfect but Muslims are not.
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    (Original post by Kurtle)
    That's not how psychology works.
    Never said it was, it's how logic works
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    Why are you focusing on the cat so literally. That wasn't the point of it. If you don't have the capabilities to understand what I wrote then I don't trust you to understand the Qu'ran.

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    Nooooo, they're Christian(!)
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    -arent muslim
    - but pray to Allah everyday and are more devoted to their religion than 95% of western Muslims
 
 
 
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