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    that's more to do with culture than religion. I am a muslim I never have had any issues with family and what not for being bisexual. I am both apart of the lgbt community and the muslim faith. But not mena culture. Which doesn't accept homosexuals mainly because they were influence by European Christians I believe. The Quran specifically doesn't mention the word homosexual in either sense. And definitely affords no punishment for it either.


    (Original post by NickLCFC)



    ...when Islam (in general) is definitely not accepting towards the LGBT community.

    Let's take Islam in the UK for example. A gallup poll reported by 'the Guardian' found that none of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

    Here is another study by Pew Research on Muslim's attitude towards homosexuality (summarised in an infographic). Unfortunately, the poll didn't include any Western European countries.

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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    Strongly disagree, a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Hindu/Sikh etc who is into their religion to the extent to which it forms part of them - it is no longer something they can control You can't just stop being a Jew when you believe you Judaism as you conscience won't allow it.
    I'm sorry, but what're you arguing here? Are you saying that it's physically impossible to change one's mind about something if you're very 'into it?' If so, that's disprovable simply by counterexamples of very devout people who've converted either to a different religion or abandoned religion altogether, such as Ibn Warraq (his pseudonym; real name unknown), the ex-Muslim author of Why I Am Not a Muslim.

    If you're arguing for something like emotional or financial impossibility (e.g. priests who've lost their faith but pretend to have it because they don't know how to live any other way), that's a different thing. But to equate the non-choice of being homosexual with the choice of believing in particular ideologies is, I think, quite simply an example of wishful thinking.
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    btw in Kosovo men can be donors despite their sexual orientation unlike here in the USA. Just saying.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I'm sorry, but what're you arguing here? Are you saying that it's physically impossible to change one's mind about something if you're very 'into it?' If so, that's disprovable simply by counterexamples of very devout people who've converted either to a different religion or abandoned religion altogether, such as Ibn Warraq (his pseudonym; real name unknown), the ex-Muslim author of Why I Am Not a Muslim.

    If you're arguing for something like emotional or financial impossibility (e.g. priests who've lost their faith but pretend to have it because they don't know how to live any other way), that's a different thing. But to equate the non-choice of being homosexual with the choice of believing in particular ideologies is, I think, quite simply an example of wishful thinking.

    Umm no you don't have to give up what you believe simply because you're not straight. I am a muslim and bisexual. And for me it's not a thing I have to chose one over the other. Homosexuality is generally what people feel about it personally. To me it's a personal choice. Some muslims don't like homosexuality so they try to look for religious justification. Therefore interpret differently.
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    (Original post by Nicolas2000)
    Umm no you don't have to give up what you believe simply because you're not straight. I am a muslim and bisexual. And for me it's not a thing I have to chose one over the other.
    I didn't say that you do...
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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    Strongly disagree, a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Hindu/Sikh etc who is into their religion to the extent to which it forms part of them - it is no longer something they can control You can't just stop being a Jew when you believe you Judaism as you conscience won't allow it.
    There are plenty of atheist Jews. Try again.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    Let's take Islam in the UK for example. A gallup poll reported by 'the Guardian' found that none of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.
    Believing that homosexual acts are not morally acceptable doesn't make you "homophobic", unless you're trying to prevent people from engage in homosexual acts or discriminating against people who do so. Just as disagreeing with certain aspects of Islam doesn't make you an Islamophobe.

    I think the whole point is that minority people are looking for tolerance, that is, to be able to live and let live despite totally contrasting beliefs or viewpoints.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    disagreeing with certain aspects of Islam doesn't make you an Islamophobe.
    You're the first person I've met who takes a word like 'Islamophobe' seriously who's actually made that concession.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    There are plenty of atheist Jews. Try again.
    Well then how can they be Jews if they don't believe in Judaism? Maybe they refer to the Jewish ethnicity and background? Whilst I refer to Orthodox Jews...

    You pointing out a small exception does not prove my point invalid....
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    (Original post by Pseudo-truth)
    LGBT peeps are a minority social group, so tend to look after the interests of other minorities for the sake of solidarity and social justice, even if their interests don't necessarily align.

    Watch the film 'Pride' for a better indication of what I'm talking about! It's a genuinely great movie with a good, historical grounding.
    Oh, as if!

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/11...gay-community/

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/madison-mo...needs-to-read/

    Gay men have a history of racism. I have gay Asian friends who say they've experienced a lot of racism in the gay community, but not as much in the straight community.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    Quoting me random case law is a diversion from my challenge to your logic that a person cannot choose their religion because it "forms part of your identity and plays a part in your thought process".

    People can choose their religion, just as they can choose their political beliefs.
    I pointed out those cases as they address your point as to how a political belief can be so important that the law requires it to be protected. Maybe if you read the judgement you would understand the approach courts take to the question in hand.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    You're the first person I've met who takes a word like 'Islamophobe' seriously who's actually made that concession.
    lol... Well if it were true, that would make every non-Muslim in the world an Islamophobe.

    I consider Islamophobia to be more along the lines of "Oh you're a Muslim? I'd better not hire you for a job then, and perhaps assault you if I see you on the streets. Hopefully you'll be kicked out of our country soon enough, because if you're not there's probably going to be an explosion going off somewhere".

    That's as opposed to something like "Islam says you should do this, but I disagree, so I'm not going to do it. Other people can if they want."
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    Okay that's fine. Just be careful if you ever visit any of the countries highlighted in orange

    I'd just like to say that for some orange countries, what is in the law may not actually be the case in the real world.

    A lot of former British colonies have archaic homosexuality laws from the times when Britain was in charge (if you look at the wording for a lot of African countries, it is identical), like where I am from it is illegal for men to be homosexual yet I've seen openly gay people on television and my mother said she wasn't even aware that this law was the case.

    I don't think we've ever had anyone arrested for being gay, it's just there isn't enough pressure to change the law because nobody really notices it's existence.
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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    Well then how can they be Jews if they don't believe in Judaism? Maybe they refer to the Jewish ethnicity and background? Whilst I refer to Orthodox Jews...

    You pointing out a small exception does not prove my point invalid....
    yeah it's little different for jews. Than with muslims. Muslims are the same as chrisians in thi aspect. It's more about faith. If you've left the faith you're no longer chirstian or muslim. But judaism is a little different. You can stll be jewish and any other faith muslim christian atheist etc...
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    lol... Well if it were true, that would make every non-Muslim in the world an Islamophobe.

    I consider Islamophobia to be more along the lines of "Oh you're a Muslim? I'd better not hire you for a job then, and perhaps assault you if I see you on the streets. Hopefully you'll be kicked out of our country soon enough, because if you're not there's probably going to be an explosion going off somewhere".
    I just call that bigotry.

    That's as opposed to something like "Islam says you should do this, but I disagree, so I'm not going to do it. Other people can if they want."
    There's a limit to that approach too, though. In order for it to be consistent with individual rights, this can only be the case where a religious person doesn't insist on things like genital mutilation of children or that his child should be taught creationism in science lessons (that one's more of a nod to Christian parents in conservative parts of America). That's not a matter of simple disagreement, I don't think -- I actively insist that they be prevented from doing that against their will.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    You have lost all of my respect. This is total RUBBISH. People cherry-pick in christianity all of the time - there are no mechanisms. Whether or not you believe the Bible, or the Qur'an, is the direct word of God, or Allah, is down to the individual.

    By definition? What even is this. This isn't about definitions coined by some company like Oxford English Dictionaries - its about reality. Muslims don't have to be anything and neither do Christians - religion is personal.
    My losing all of your respect is just something I am going to have to live with, I guess.

    However, your response shows that you don't really know what you are talking about with regard to islam. Which is something you are going to have to live with, I guess.
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    (Original post by BoredHumxnity)
    that is very ignorant of you to say. I am guessing you haven't done any proper research as in reading the holy Qur'an? I bet you get all your info from the media and if so, you are looking at a very biased, islamaphobic source my friend
    So, how about those of us who have studied Islam in great depth, using only Islamic scripture, and still come to the conclusion that it discriminates on the grounds of gender?

    What is your response to us?

    Bigoted Islamophobes, I guess.
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    (Original post by Nicolas2000)
    yeah it's little different for jews. Than with muslims. Muslims are the same as chrisians in thi aspect. It's more about faith. If you've left the faith you're no longer chirstian or muslim. But judaism is a little different. You can stll be jewish and any other faith muslim christian atheist etc...
    Atheism isn't a faith.
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    (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
    Well then how can they be Jews if they don't believe in Judaism? Maybe they refer to the Jewish ethnicity and background? Whilst I refer to Orthodox Jews...You pointing out a small exception does not prove my point invalid....
    "Jewishness" is mostly defined by lineage, not religion, hence why Antisemitism is different from Islamophobia.You can always control your beliefs. Some people leave their religion or political views.
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    (Original post by BoredHumxnity)
    With all due respect, it is universally respectful to say PBUH after the Prohpet's name.
    With all due respect, the historical record of Muhammad shows him to be a person due no respect (other than for his ability to establish and maintain a totalitarian dictatorship).
    In fact his execution of prisoners, torturing of captives, and condoning of death for apostates, adulterers and homosexuals shows him to be someone worthy of oprobrium.

    It is noteworthy that supposedly educated people in the 21st century still believe that he is worthy of any respect at all!
 
 
 
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