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    I'll be voting to leave the EU. Maybe then we will be one step closer to ending mass immigration!
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    Anyone who thinks the UK can (and should) leave the EU is an ignorant, xenophobic simpleton........According to stay supporters. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by littlenorthernlass)
    I'll be voting to leave the EU. Maybe then we will be one step closer to ending mass immigration!
    You will be disappointed.

    Even if immigration is massively reduced teachers will not get a pay rise. NHS will continue to be privatised.
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    I will be old enough to vote in this! Ahh I'm feeling the responsibility...
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You will be disappointed.

    Even if immigration is massively reduced teachers will not get a pay rise. NHS will continue to be privatised.
    Pray tell how?:rolleyes:

    And what has my views on immigration got to do with teachers' pay or privatisation?
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    (Original post by littlenorthernlass)
    I'll be voting to leave the EU. Maybe then we will be one step closer to ending mass immigration!
    You are being misled if you believe this. The reality is British economic growth needs immigrants and all serious politicians (including those riding the Leave horse) recognise this. They are not going to say this because it is politically unpopular but apart from the years 1973-81 gross immigration to Britain has never been less than 200,000 a year since modern immigration control was introduced.

    If you look at the number of migrants to the UK in 2014, it is 632,000. Of those, 81K are Brits and are obviously entitled to come, 264K are EU citizens and are effectively outside UK immigration control. 129K of those are from the "old" EU not the Eastern European states.

    However we have chosen to let in 287K from the rest of the world. In context, the number of asylum seekers from anywhere in the world in 2014 was 31,433 and only about 50% of asylum seekers win asylum. In terms of total numbers, asylum seekers are trivial. That means that over a quarter of a million people who are entirely under UK government control are settling here every year.

    The top three sending countries in 2014 were India 45K, China 39K and Romania 34K. In other words in 2014 the British government chose to let in three times as many Chinese than the total number of asylum applications granted and significantly more Chinese than from any European country.

    Why on earth do you think that any of this will change if we leave the EU?
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You are being misled if you believe this. The reality is British economic growth needs immigrants and all serious politicians (including those riding the Leave horse) recognise this. They are not going to say this because it is politically unpopular but apart from the years 1973-81 gross immigration to Britain has never been less than 200,000 a year since modern immigration control was introduced.

    If you look at the number of migrants to the UK in 2014, it is 632,000. Of those, 81K are Brits and are obviously entitled to come, 264K are EU citizens and are effectively outside UK immigration control. 129K of those are from the "old" EU not the Eastern European states.

    However we have chosen to let in 287K from the rest of the world. In context, the number of asylum seekers from anywhere in the world in 2014 was 31,433 and only about 50% of asylum seekers win asylum. In terms of total numbers, asylum seekers are trivial. That means that over a quarter of a million people who are entirely under UK government control are settling here every year.

    The top three sending countries in 2014 were India 45K, China 39K and Romania 34K. In other words in 2014 the British government chose to let in three times as many Chinese than the total number of asylum applications granted and significantly more Chinese than from any European country.

    Why on earth do you think that any of this will change if we leave the EU?
    Sorry but that's absolute crap.

    To say leaving the eu won't stem some of the migration from Europe is an outright lie.

    The immediate restrictions would be the same as migrants from the rest of the world so that's a 35k a year salary as a minimum.

    Cleaners, Apple pickers, warehouse workers, car washers, shop workers need I go on? All these jobs command no where near the threshold.

    Migration will probably drop 100,000 or so.

    If the public then think that is too high they can let their elected representatives know and they can tailor the rules accordingly as they will have full control.


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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You are being misled if you believe this. The reality is British economic growth needs immigrants and all serious politicians (including those riding the Leave horse) recognise this. They are not going to say this because it is politically unpopular but apart from the years 1973-81 gross immigration to Britain has never been less than 200,000 a year since modern immigration control was introduced.

    If you look at the number of migrants to the UK in 2014, it is 632,000. Of those, 81K are Brits and are obviously entitled to come, 264K are EU citizens and are effectively outside UK immigration control. 129K of those are from the "old" EU not the Eastern European states.

    However we have chosen to let in 287K from the rest of the world. In context, the number of asylum seekers from anywhere in the world in 2014 was 31,433 and only about 50% of asylum seekers win asylum. In terms of total numbers, asylum seekers are trivial. That means that over a quarter of a million people who are entirely under UK government control are settling here every year.

    The top three sending countries in 2014 were India 45K, China 39K and Romania 34K. In other words in 2014 the British government chose to let in three times as many Chinese than the total number of asylum applications granted and significantly more Chinese than from any European country.

    Why on earth do you think that any of this will change if we leave the EU?
    A lot of none EU immigrants are not immigrants at all but students who will be in the country temporarily and leave after their studies finish. Britain is a popular choice for students because courses are taught in English and British universities have a good reputation. The government choose to count them as immigrants which in my mind is an error.

    I expect some of the EU immigrants are also students or seasonal workers working on farms.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Sorry but that's absolute crap.

    To say leaving the eu won't stem some of the migration from Europe is an outright lie.

    The immediate restrictions would be the same as migrants from the rest of the world so that's a 35k a year salary as a minimum.

    Cleaners, Apple pickers, warehouse workers, car washers, shop workers need I go on? All these jobs command no where near the threshold.

    Migration will probably drop 100,000 or so.

    If the public then think that is too high they can let their elected representatives know and they can tailor the rules accordingly as they will have full control.


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    Leaving the EU would probably decrease temporary migration from the EU but increase permanent migration because at the moment, EU citizens can move back and forth between their own country and Britain easily so there is no need to settle but if they could not, they would need to estabilish permanent residency quickly and have to decide to stay sooner. This is what happened when Britain increased restrictions on immigration from the West Indies during the 1950s and 60s.

    Getting immigration down to an arbitary number is stupid because immigration is needed fro the economy and if there was an arbitrary number, immigrates vital to the economy and public services like doctors, engineers and teachers would be affected.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Sorry but that's absolute crap.

    To say leaving the eu won't stem some of the migration from Europe is an outright lie.

    The immediate restrictions would be the same as migrants from the rest of the world so that's a 35k a year salary as a minimum.

    Cleaners, Apple pickers, warehouse workers, car washers, shop workers need I go on? All these jobs command no where near the threshold.

    Migration will probably drop 100,000 or so.

    If the public then think that is too high they can let their elected representatives know and they can tailor the rules accordingly as they will have full control.
    You have completely missed the point of what I have said.
    littlenorthernlass believes that mass migration is something that politicians wish to stop. They don't.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    A lot of none EU immigrants are not immigrants at all but students who will be in the country temporarily and leave after their studies finish. Britain is a popular choice for students because courses are taught in English and British universities have a good reputation. The government choose to count them as immigrants which in my mind is an error.

    I expect some of the EU immigrants are also students or seasonal workers working on farms.
    The government has chosen to count students towards is immigration target, and that has been widely criticised.

    However students are counted as migrants (and seasonal labour is not) in the international definition of immigration that the world uses to collects its statistics.

    http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.a...s-be-taken-out

    Although the point is relevant for the gross migration figures I was using, a student who goes home counts as an emigrant and so does not distort the net migration figures.

    The OECD thinks that 25% of students remain in the UK.
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    (Original post by Doug Stamper)
    What do you guys think we should do? I can't decide, personally.
    Leave. You'll be able to negotiate better terms and also have a greater measure of independence (obviously), sovereignty, your own courts (less trouble deporting criminals etc), border control (I think this will be a bigger factor as population growth/instability sees mass emigration to Europe from Africa & the Middle East).

    There are a number of countries that aren't in the EU and seem to do very nicely without the overbearing judicial and legislative controls that seem somewhat anti-democratic.
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    Question to anyone who knows more about this than I do...

    I am an Australian / Brit with dual citizenship, grew up in Aus, currently living on the continent... Will I get kicked out of mainland Europe?

    This is the reason I have my UK passport: Born in London (parents are Australian), grandparents are Scottish.

    Hypothetically.... if the UK leaves and Scotland leaves the UK and stays in the EU... is my passport then going to be Scottish or UK-scotlandish?
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    (Original post by Chi019)
    Leave. You'll be able to negotiate
    Will you?

    This is what the US chief trade negotiator Michael Froman says

    The US is "not particularly in the market for free trade agreements with individual countries"


    better terms


    [/QUOTE]

    How do you know? Cameron failed to achieve much in his re-negotiation despite it being in European interests for him to get a good deal to take home. Why will Gove or Boris do any better if the UK leaves?

    and also have a greater measure of independence (obviously),
    sovereignty,
    Depends what you mean here. You will have the same right to pull out of any deals as you have to pull out of the EU but if you do a deal, you have to sticj to its terms.


    your own courts (less trouble deporting criminals etc),
    You are confusing the European Court of Justice with the European Court of HJuman Rights which has nothing to do with the EU.

    border control (I think this will be a bigger factor as population growth/instability sees mass emigration to Europe from Africa & the Middle East).
    If you have ever gone abroad you will see that we have border controls against non-EU citizens,


    There are a number of countries that aren't in the EU and seem to do very nicely without the overbearing judicial and legislative controls that seem somewhat anti-democratic.
    Most countries have a Constitutional Court that can strike down legislation and obviously the US Supreme Court is the leading example of this. You are merely transferring to the EU all your frustration with the way the world works.
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    (Original post by hockeyswim)
    Question to anyone who knows more about this than I do...

    I am an Australian / Brit with dual citizenship, grew up in Aus, currently living on the continent... Will I get kicked out of mainland Europe?

    This is the reason I have my UK passport: Born in London (parents are Australian), grandparents are Scottish.

    Hypothetically.... if the UK leaves and Scotland leaves the UK and stays in the EU... is my passport then going to be Scottish or UK-scotlandish?
    Well, you will have to apply for a Visa to stay in Europe after a certain peroid of time. Anyone that claims otherwise is just talking *******s.

    You will probably get a choice of passport if the Scottish leave the UK. Also, if Scotland leaves the UK, they will not be part of the EU unless they reapply.
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    I'm concerned over what would happen to some EU enviromental regulations. A lot of the ones with teeth, like the Water Framework Directive which has helped improvements in water quality (among others of course), come from the EU. I'm worried that environmental laws would be at risk if we left, especially given the Conservative party's abysmal record on the environment since 2010.

    However, I consider myself Euroskeptic and I am leaning towards leave due to the sovereignty issues with the EU, TTIP, and because the EU is basically another layer of the poor governance we have in the UK - out of touch politicians, bureucracy, not very responsive to a lot of concerns, and influenced too much by big business. We already have these problems with our own government - do we really need another layer of it? If we had a more trustworthy and environmentally friendly government, I would have no problem in voting to leave.

    And this "Euroskeptics are just stupid and uneducated little Englanders who don't understand the EU" attitude from some pro-EU people in this thread is just disgusting and needs to end.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)

    And this "Euroskeptics are just stupid and uneducated .
    "37% of pro-EU voters have a university degree, only 15% of anti-EU voters do"
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/22...ublic-opinion/

    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    little Englanders
    This paper confirms the popular view that England is indeed the most Eurosceptic nation in the UK; all the available survey and polling evidence points to there being a much narrower majorityin England for remaining in the EU than there is Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

    http://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-conten...ed-kingdom.pdf
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    (Original post by littlenorthernlass)
    I'll be voting to leave the EU. Maybe then we will be one step closer to ending mass immigration!
    I agree with you, mass immigration is a huge issue at the moment and is bound to become worse in the future. Uk's finances are stretched enough as they are, something has to be done about it
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    I find it interesting that the clear majority of young people are pro EU when, according to many of the comments I have read on this forum, most young people will find it incredibly hard to buy a house ( in an area where there are decent jobs) and wages are being kept low to some extent by,once again according to comments I have read on this forum,large scale Eastern European immigration.

    So older people with houses are against the EU even though immigration quite possibly or even probably helps to keep house prices buoyant yet young people who rent welcome the EU and presumably the very free movement of people that may be making their lives in this country tougher.


    Hmmmm.I don't have anything to say about that.But perhaps someone else does.Then again it may already have been dealt with.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Sorry but that's absolute crap.

    To say leaving the eu won't stem some of the migration from Europe is an outright lie.

    The immediate restrictions would be the same as migrants from the rest of the world so that's a 35k a year salary as a minimum.

    Cleaners, Apple pickers, warehouse workers, car washers, shop workers need I go on? All these jobs command no where near the threshold.

    Migration will probably drop 100,000 or so.

    If the public then think that is too high they can let their elected representatives know and they can tailor the rules accordingly as they will have full control.


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    Exactly!
    If anything, choosing to leave the EU is not racist as this will mean equal restrictions for migrants whether they are from inside or outside the EU. And so as a result, equal opportunities to enter the UK (or not) solely based on skill rather than nationality.
 
 
 
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