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Do you think a woman who has killed a foetus could ever be a good mother? watch

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    (Original post by niamhemily99)
    Its not any of your business whether a woman has had an abortion, and you should not ask. Having an abortion doesn't make you a bad person and in fact has no relation to the persons personality or character. Also its so very easy for you to sit there and call women who've had abortions nasty names but at the end of a day you'll never experience what they've had to go through and so your opinion on abortion and what women should do is completely and utterly irrelevant.
    I think the original post was unnecessarily extreme, but I think you make a number of assumptions which I don't think are justified.

    Firstly the argument that isn't someone elses business whether a woman has an abortion. I think that if you plan to marry and potentially have children with someone it is well within reason to ask them about their view on such topics. If you personally view abortion as murder (whether this is justified is different) then surely you have the personal choice not to date someone who engaged in such an act?

    You make a simple claim that abortion has no relation to a persons personality or character, but this is just assuming that your views of abortion are correct. Someone who does think abortion is morally wrong will obviously think differently. The OP presented a basic argument from morality, you have not refuted this aside from just disagreeing.

    Finally, just because someone does not experience something does not make their opinion wrong, neither does it make it irrelevant. From OP's perspective, if he intends to have children for example, he may be extremely put off by a woman knowing that they might abort their foetus. After all, the the foetus is still partly the man's, thus he would clearly have a level of care towards it, and justifiably so. An analogy would be me caring about what the politicians in our country do, despite the very low possibility I will become one.
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    You said that it isn't legally a baby until 24 weeks. I pointed out that's not true; a foetus is a foetus, and a baby is a baby (i.e. it's not a baby until it's born).

    Strictly as a matter of law, I was pointing out the law doesn't define baby as "foetus after 24 weeks" and the law doesn't decide abortions based on whether it is characterised as a baby. If it is in the womb, it's a foetus. And foetuses before 24 weeks may be terminated, after 24 weeks they may not without special circumstances.

    I was (slightly pedantically, as you were correct about the 24 week time limit) pointing out that the definitions were not entirely correct,



    That seems slightly sexist. If a man is the father of the baby he certainly has a right to an opinion. And all men (as equal citizens) have a right to have a view about abortion law and policy in general.

    I agree the final choice should be with the woman who is carrying it, but we should not go from there to assume therefore men cannot even express an opinion.
    nope sorry, her uterus her choice, by saying men have a right if they are the parent introduces the ability of abusers and rapists to enter the woman life, and even if its just a one night stand or her partner, its never ever his right to have a choice, as soon as he can get pregnant and carry a life draining being for 9 months then he can get a say
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    (Original post by BankOfPigs)
    I think the original post was unnecessarily extreme, but I think you make a number of assumptions which I don't think are justified.

    Firstly the argument that isn't someone elses business whether a woman has an abortion. I think that if you plan to marry and potentially have children with someone it is well within reason to ask them about their view on such topics. If you personally view abortion as murder (whether this is justified is different) then surely you have the personal choice not to date someone who engaged in such an act?

    You make a simple claim that abortion has no relation to a persons personality or character, but this is just assuming that your views of abortion are correct. Someone who does think abortion is morally wrong will obviously think differently. The OP presented a basic argument from morality, you have not refuted this aside from just disagreeing.

    Finally, just because someone does not experience something does not make their opinion wrong, neither does it make it irrelevant. From OP's perspective, if he intends to have children for example, he may be extremely put off by a woman knowing that they might abort their foetus. After all, the the foetus is still partly the man's, thus he would clearly have a level of care towards it, and justifiably so. An analogy would be me caring about what the politicians in our country do, despite the very low possibility I will become one.
    A person with a nasty horrible personality can have an abortion and a lovely caring person can have an abortion, there is no relation between abortion and character, because that would mean there would not be awful mothers in the world because the relation of character to abortion would have forced them to abort.

    Until you can be in the shoes and the situation of someone with an unwanted pregnancy your opinion on the matter is irrelevant, abortion laws and morals are constantly argued by men but why are they trying to enforce upon womens bodies in a situation they will never truly understand.
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    (Original post by niamhemily99)
    A person with a nasty horrible personality can have an abortion and a lovely caring person can have an abortion, there is no relation between abortion and character, because that would mean there would not be awful mothers in the world because the relation of character to abortion would have forced them to abort.

    Until you can be in the shoes and the situation of someone with an unwanted pregnancy your opinion on the matter is irrelevant, abortion laws and morals are constantly argued by men but why are they trying to enforce upon womens bodies in a situation they will never truly understand.
    This reasoning does not follow.

    I am not making the claim that abortion <=> bad character. I am saying that there is an argument for why someone might think they are linked. Your counter example doesn't refute this, nor have you given any counter arguments.

    Again, just because someone will never be put in said situation does not mean that it is not relevant to them. For example I am sure you agree that it is wrong for me to murder someone. However, you will never be me so you will never experience what it is like precisely for me to murder someone. Surely you think that you can still make moral judgements towards me?

    For an even more extreme example: Suppose a woman raped a guy for the purpose of becoming pregnant, and then had an abortion without asking them, do you not think there is something wrong here?
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Why is that relevant? Knowing that you had a choice is great for hindsight, but doesnt change the situation.

    As a side note. You dont always choose to get a dog.
    You seem to be confusing a dog (a living thing) with something which is essentially a parasite (a foetus)


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You seem to be confusing a dog (a living thing) with something which is essentially a parasite (a foetus)
    A foetus is still a living thing, even if it relies on the mother to survive.

    It's also an analogy anyway.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    A foetus is still a living thing, even if it relies on the mother to survive.

    It's also an analogy anyway.
    So is bacteria yet we kill billions of them every day


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    So is bacteria yet we kill billions of them every day


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    Its a matter of scale. Aborting a foetus becomes more immoral as it develops/
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Its a matter of scale. Aborting a foetus becomes more immoral as it develops/
    No it doesn't. A foetus is, like I said, essentially a parasite until 24 weeks when it becomes a legal human. It's nonsense to suggest that aborting a foetus at 10 weeks is more acceptable than at 13 weeks


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    No it doesn't. A foetus is, like I said, essentially a parasite until 24 weeks when it becomes a legal human. It's nonsense to suggest that aborting a foetus at 10 weeks is more acceptable than at 13 weeks


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    A foetus is essentially a parasite untill it leaves the womb, this doesnt negate the fact it is still a living thing that gets more complex as time goes on.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    A foetus is essentially a parasite untill it leaves the womb, this doesnt negate the fact it is still a living thing that gets more complex as time goes on.
    Bacteria, left to its own devices, can become more complex over time yet we still kill it


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Bacteria, left to its own devices, can become more complex over time yet we still kill it


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    Not to the same extent. If a colony of bacteria became complex enough to hsve a basic nervous system then it would be immoral to kill it.
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    Preventing a life from developing wouldn't impede somebody's ability to raise a fully developed living person I wouldn't have thought.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Not to the same extent. If a colony of bacteria became complex enough to hsve a basic nervous system then it would be immoral to kill it.
    Animals have nervous systems yet we kill vast numbers of those


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Animals have nervous systems yet we kill vast numbers of those


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    And that is immoral.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    And that is immoral.
    I'm sure you don't mind benefitting from it


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    I don't really see the relationship between a woman being a good mother and having an abortion.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'm sure you don't mind benefitting from it


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    Actually i do mind.

    Incidently, have you got a argument, or are you just trying to make me out to be a hypocrite?
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    Actually i do mind.

    Incidently, have you got a argument, or are you just trying to make me out to be a hypocrite?
    So you don't use products that contain parts of animals? I'm picking holes in your argument, that may coincidentally make you look like hypocrite


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    So you don't use products that contain parts of animals?
    I do, but I'm not happy about it. I try to avoid where reasonable.

    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'm picking holes in your argument, that may coincidentally make you look like hypocrite
    No, what you are doing is finding something to point out to show hypocrisy. Examining my dietary and product choices is not picking apart my argument, it's picking apart my lifestyle which has no baring the morality of actions. I could for example, go around kicking babies, this doesn't make doing so any less moral.

    I view unborn humans similarly to born animals of similar complexity, and consider killing living things immoral. What I, or anyone else does as far as killing things goes is irrelevant to the morality of those actions, nobody leads a flawlessly moral life, and everyone chooses immoral actions for selfish reasons.
 
 
 
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