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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    You claimed that we didnt have control of our borders which we do. And we were never in the Schengen agreement.

    Besides, why are you so interested in british affairs?
    LOL! I just said you were never in the Schengen agreement. Are you a parrot?

    I want you to tell me about Dave's amazing deal. What has he done to strengthen your borders?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    LOL! I just said you were never in the Schengen agreement. Are you a parrot?

    I want you to tell me about Dave's amazing deal. What has he done to strengthen your borders?
    As i said, you said that we dont have control of our borders which you do

    Find out for yourself
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    Being in the EU means we have intelligence in 2 EU countries making it easier to catch and stop terrorists.
    More nonsense.

    Any reason why joint intelligence arrangements should suddenly cease on exiting the EU? Surely you realise that your country shares intelligence with dozens of countries that are not in the EU. (I'd wager that by far the biggest external source of intelligence enjoyed by the Brits comes from the USA)
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    (Original post by Howard)
    More nonsense.

    Any reason why joint intelligence arrangements should suddenly cease on exiting the EU? Surely you realise that your country shares intelligence with dozens of countries that are not in the EU. (I'd wager that by far the biggest external source of intelligence enjoyed by the Brits comes from the USA)
    If we leave we dont get that intelligence. Another thing the conservatives ramble about on our radio.
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    As i said, you said that we dont have control of our borders which you do

    Find out for yourself
    You can't tell me what Dave's deal was because he didn't do one. All he did was get a watered down deal on in work benefits.

    Let me tell you again:

    a) Any EU resident or citizen has the right to enter the EU. That's a plain fact.
    b) The EU's external borders are highly permeable and allow millions on non-EU people to enter.
    c)Those people will eventually become EU residents and citizens thanks to soft touch countries like Germany.
    d)They will then have the right to enter the UK.

    I really can't make it any simpler for you to understand. That was the situation before Dave's deal. It's the same situation after. Dave did NOTHING!
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    If we leave we dont get that intelligence. Another thing the conservatives ramble about on our radio.
    Scaremongering. Your government is trying to frighten you. They're even using tax payers money to do it.

    Show me where any EU country has declared that intelligence sharing would cease in the event of Brexit. Why would they do that? The UK has one of the best intelligence commuinities (GCHQ, SIS, Chicksands et al) in the world - why would they not continue to want the benefits of British intelligence?
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    I think European manufacturers, on whose goodwill the EU depends, are perfectly rational enough to expect a mutually agreeable free trade deal to be signed. I also think Europeans whose jobs depend on trade will expect one too.
    I don't think it is as simple as signing a trade agreement to maintain trade with the EU. Traders will have to do more paperwork if the UK leaves and there will be delays as goods have to go through Customs and may be subject to tariffs all which makes trade more difficult and expensive.

    EU traders may prefer switching trading with the UK to trading with other EU members if the cost and inconvenience of trading with the UK gets too large.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    You can't tell me what Dave's deal was because he didn't do one. All he did was get a watered down deal on in work benefits.

    Let me tell you again:

    a) Any EU resident or citizen has the right to enter the EU. That's a plain fact.
    b) The EU's external borders are highly permeable and allow millions on non-EU people to enter.
    c)Those people will eventually become EU residents and citizens thanks to soft touch countries like Germany.
    d)They will then have the right to enter the UK.

    I really can't make it any simpler for you to understand. That was the situation before Dave's deal. It's the same situation after. Dave did NOTHING!
    You seem so obsessed with immigration. David's deal can be a deterrent for those wishing to come and work here, and will decrease immigration.

    Davids deal was more complex, reducing the red tape, economic security, not having to pay for other countries bailouts etc etc, we no longer become a net contributor

    We're not as simple minded as you Americans who blame all our problems on immigration as a scapegoat.
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    Best Case Scenario:
    Immigration falls to levels where pressures on services are manageable but is still enough to supply the UK with a workforce.
    We maintain our current trading capabilities with the EU whilst making significant trade deals with other countries/blocs.
    Businesses relocate to the UK to take advantage of free trade with the EU as well as other countries.
    International defence co-operation is maintained (or better though I don't see how that is possible).
    The UK, released of its restraints, enters a golden age for the next 10 turns. Production, science and gold output increases.


    Worst Case Scenario:
    Immigration refuses to fall significantly or the people in charge get it wrong and we don't get enough immigration.
    We lose access to the single-market and fail to counteract this with good trade deals with other countries.
    Investment in the UK falls with larger businesses moving their headquarters.
    Defence becomes harder with intelligence-sharing with EU countries becoming less likely.
    The UK fades into irrelevancy while the EU somehow becomes a bastion of world influence.


    Scotland is also more likely to leave the UK. Good/bad is up to you I guess.
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    (Original post by BasicMistake)
    The UK, released of its restraints, enters a golden age for the next 10 turns. Production, science and gold output increases.
    Normally Ghandhi declares war on you at that point, so make sure you've built the Manhattan Project!
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Honestly? I don't think the EU will seek to make life hard for a UK that is outside the EU, but that whatever deal we secure, it will be inferior to what we already have by default. There is absolutely zero chance of the EU letting us have access to the Single Market without us agreeing to being subject to EU law, so our trade will suffer.

    Over time, sure, we'll adapt and businesses will come and go to and from elsewhere. But in the short-to-medium term, we'll be harmed.
    A mutually agreeable free trade deal will suffice. The EU would be crazy to refuse it.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I don't think it is as simple as signing a trade agreement to maintain trade with the EU. Traders will have to do more paperwork if the UK leaves and there will be delays as goods have to go through Customs and may be subject to tariffs all which makes trade more difficult and expensive.

    EU traders may prefer switching trading with the UK to trading with other EU members if the cost and inconvenience of trading with the UK gets too large.
    Trade is too important to both sides to let red tape stand in the way.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    A mutually agreeable free trade deal will suffice. The EU would be crazy to refuse it.
    The only issue is that the EU might be afraid that it would send out a message of weakness that will be exploited by the right-wing in other EU member states. In other words, 'If the UK can leave the EU and get all of its benefits, why can't we?'
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Trade is too important to both sides to let red tape stand in the way.
    Britain is already talking of slapping tariffs in Chinese steel and China has already impose tariffs on some UK steel. Politics always trumps common sense.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    A mutually agreeable free trade deal will suffice.
    Nah.

    The EU would be crazy to refuse it.
    Sure. But it's still vastly inferior to what we currently have and we'd be less competitive for a half-billion head market.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Nah.



    Sure. But it's still vastly inferior to what we currently have and we'd be less competitive for a half-billion head market.
    We have an expensive crap deal now. A free trade deal, where we can also forge trade deals around the world, without reference to the European Commission is vastly superior.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Britain is already talking of slapping tariffs in Chinese steel and China has already impose tariffs on some UK steel. Politics always trumps common sense.
    I wouldn't imagine the UK exports very much steel to China does it? Why is it the Chinese have already imposed tariffs on UK steel while the UK is only "talking about it"?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Britain is already talking of slapping tariffs in Chinese steel and China has already impose tariffs on some UK steel. Politics always trumps common sense.

    Politics won't trump free trade. What do you think German manufacturers will do if the EU hinders trade?
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    We have an expensive crap deal now. A free trade deal, where we can also forge trade deals around the world,
    We can already do that.

    without reference to the European Commission is vastly superior.
    I disagree. For practical reasons, much of EU regulation would likely continue to apply here so that our goods can still sell competitively in the EU.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I wouldn't imagine the UK exports very much steel to China does it? Why is it the Chinese have already imposed tariffs on UK steel while the UK is only "talking about it"?
    I assume Britain don't want to jeopardise Chinese investments and exports by imposing tariffs.
 
 
 
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