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    (Original post by DrSocSciences)
    In my field of work, you don't even come to the table without a PhD.
    But having come to the table, the OP suggests you proceed to eat your peas with a knife with your elbows on the table.
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    Did I say "table"? My mistake. Should've read "stable."
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    Diving in here for my 2 cents.

    Degrees are not too common. But degrees that serve no purpose to society or students are. What's more they are being miss sold.
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    I don't see any problem with degrees being more common. So it increases competition for graduate jobs? Well, that's... good? :five:

    I think nepotism may be more of a "problem", though it is probably not actually common enough to be a big problem.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    No. I'm saying that the number of students should be determined by economic demand.
    I don't have a problem with the current system, but your suggestion also appeals to me. Only I would say: Businesses could sponsor places for which there is economic demand, and everyone who wants to study something for which there is no demand could pay for it themselves. There are problems with that too (only rich people would be able to study Music or Drama), but these problems already exist to some extent, anyway.

    I do think classical subjects are culturally enriching BTW, but I don't see why anyone needs to study Classics, English, History or Philosophy straight after school. I always think that people who are older (maybe retired) and have seen something of the world will get much more out of these kind of degrees than some precocious 18-year-olds.
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    Degrees have become too common if you believe a degree is just to be studied to get a grad job. Competition for grad jobs is at silly heights atm and having a degree is just one small tick box in a larger application process for them- the person as a whole is far more important. So I do believe we need to stop peddling the argument that degree= job, especially when most degrees don't teach you much in the way of workplace skills anyway. However its great if people enjoy studying for studyings sake and to become more learned.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    However its great if people enjoy studying for studyings sake and to become more learned.
    Well indeed, and this is something that is very often ignored in these discussions, but people studying degrees who will neither improve their employment prospects nor gain anything in particular from 'studying' a subject in which they have no real interest for brief intervals in between nights out remain too common.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Well indeed, and this is something that is very often ignored in these discussions, but people studying degrees who will neither improve their employment prospects nor gain anything in particular from 'studying' a subject in which they have no real interest for brief intervals in between nights out remain too common.
    I agree, there are too many doing degrees because they don't know what their other options are. However we need to make sure that the alternatives- apprenticeships, jobs e.c.t are more accessible than grad jobs- that people are given a chance to demonstrate what they can do rather than just have to jump through hoop after hoop. If you've watched any episodes of Employable Me you'll understand what I mean.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    I agree, there are too many doing degrees because they don't know what their other options are. However we need to make sure that the alternatives- apprenticeships, jobs e.c.t are more accessible than grad jobs- that people are given a chance to demonstrate what they can do rather than just have to jump through hoop after hoop.
    Well, I'm with you on the aims. I'm not particularly sure how we'd make sure of that, although I'm certainly not against diverting funds from wasted student loans if they can be put to good use.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    Degrees have become too common if you believe a degree is just to be studied to get a grad job. Competition for grad jobs is at silly heights atm and having a degree is just one small tick box in a larger application process for them- the person as a whole is far more important.
    Why is this a problem?
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    (Original post by llys)
    Why is this a problem?
    Because too many people are doing a degree believing that the degree alone will help them to get a better job and it won't. Also you think there isn't anything wrong with 100+ people chasing one graduate internship, as is the case in the sector I'm looking at?
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    Could one of the other reasons more people are doing degrees in the Uk is that life has changed and we are much more technologically advanced and doing more complex things, take health or media for example , it has changed so much in the past 20 years, there is so much more to know and so much more complex problems to solve. We need many more people who can think and problem solve at a higher level so we need more people with degree level thinking skills, almost regardless of the subject they study. If the universities are of good quality, they should be enabling all students to develop these skills.
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    (Original post by llys)
    I don't have a problem with the current system, but your suggestion also appeals to me. Only I would say: Businesses could sponsor places for which there is economic demand, and everyone who wants to study something for which there is no demand could pay for it themselves. There are problems with that too (only rich people would be able to study Music or Drama), but these problems already exist to some extent, anyway.

    I do think classical subjects are culturally enriching BTW, but I don't see why anyone needs to study Classics, English, History or Philosophy straight after school. I always think that people who are older (maybe retired) and have seen something of the world will get much more out of these kind of degrees than some precocious 18-year-olds.
    There is a far easier way to do that: make the loans repayable to universities, not to the government. Therefore, universities will only open degrees for which they know their students will be able to pay back. There will still be degrees in Classics, Theatre or History, but only in the best unis. Others will have to adapt and only offer degrees with good employment prospects.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    There is a far easier way to do that: make the loans repayable to universities, not to the government. Therefore, universities will only open degrees for which they know their students will be able to pay back. There will still be degrees in Classics, Theatre or History, but only in the best unis. Others will have to adapt and only offer degrees with good employment prospects.
    I would simply strengthen the terms of student loans so that they actually have to be paid back.

    I personally cannot fathom why the government decided to raise the repayment floor to 21k when it increased the tuition fee cap. I do not see why someone earning 17k cannot even begin to make modest repayments.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    Because too many people are doing a degree believing that the degree alone will help them to get a better job and it won't. Also you think there isn't anything wrong with 100+ people chasing one graduate internship, as is the case in the sector I'm looking at?
    No, I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. I think tough competition is a good thing. I do agree with you though that people should be made aware of what they are getting into - that is, they should be told that the competition will be tough before they decide to go down that route.

    (Original post by Josb)
    There is a far easier way to do that: make the loans repayable to universities, not to the government. Therefore, universities will only open degrees for which they know their students will be able to pay back. There will still be degrees in Classics, Theatre or History, but only in the best unis. Others will have to adapt and only offer degrees with good employment prospects.
    Oh yes. Very good idea.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I would simply strengthen the terms of student loans so that they actually have to be paid back.

    I personally cannot fathom why the government decided to raise the repayment floor to 21k when it increased the tuition fee cap. I do not see why someone earning 17k cannot even begin to make modest repayments.
    Because, under the current system, universities are encouraged to increase their enrollment -- especially through cheap degrees such as media studies, since they will get more money. They don't really care whether their alumni will pay back or not since they repay their loans to the government.
    If you say that universities will receive receive their alumni's repayments directly, they will drop all their useless courses.
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    (Original post by llys)
    No, I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. I think tough competition is a good thing. I do agree with you though that people should be made aware of what they are getting into - that is, they should be told that the competition will be tough before they decide to go down that route.



    Oh yes. Very good idea.
    Why? It just shuts out plenty of people who would be great at a job but just can't write the perfect application or give the perfect interview.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    Why? It just shuts out plenty of people who would be great at a job but just can't write the perfect application or give the perfect interview.
    Not sure which part you are replying to.
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    (Original post by llys)
    Not sure which part you are replying to.
    About you saying tough competition is a good thing. It stops people getting jobs.
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    (Original post by jelly1000)
    About you saying tough competition is a good thing. It stops people getting jobs.
    There is a finite number of jobs. The people who are not getting jobs would not have got these jobs in the first place.

    Why should other people be stopped from studying just to make life after graduation easier for you?
 
 
 
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