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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Its a hypothetical to try and help a poster emphasise better with people who's skill sets are being flooded. With regards to your point about "earnings will decrease to the point it would be better for them to stay at home" - For skilled labour that may be so, for Romanian strawberry pickers who earn 60p an hour back home... that would never be the case when its £7.20 minimum wage in the UK

    AND NOW YOU CAN SEE THE PROBLEM
    The fact remains more people in a country earning money is good for that country because people with money consume goods and services that employs other people. The UK economy has shown by the low unemployment rate and moderate growth it can thrive on the number of workers it has. The countries that have not thrived like Spain and Portugal have lower immigration.

    Why should the country be held hostage by the lowest paid and lowest skilled in the country? We all know the kids at school who messed around and left school with no qualifications and now finding it hard to get work.

    Its hypocritical of people who complain about immigration's effect on the low paid while not really caring one bit about them in real life.
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    Imagine if immigrants literally stole jobs. Like you walk into a bathroom as a lawyer and you walk out unemployed :lol:
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The fact remains more people in a country earning money is good for that country because people with money consume goods and services that employs other people. The UK economy has shown by the low unemployment rate and moderate growth it can thrive on the number of workers it has. The countries that have not thrived like Spain and Portugal have lower immigration.

    Why should the country be held hostage by the lowest paid and lowest skilled in the country? We all know the kids at school who messed around and left school with no qualifications and now finding it hard to get work.

    Its hypocritical of people who complain about immigration's effect on the low paid while not really caring one bit about them in real life.
    Spain and Portugal have like over 50% youth employment. Their struggles are not because they do not have enough working immigrants to pick oranges or package paella.

    Why should the country be held hostage by the lowest paid and lowest tax earners who use the NHS, Schools and so forth?

    If u want dog eat dog.. capitalism is great.. fine lets be consistent then and have no welfare state, no NHS, privatise everything

    The fact is people hate the working class, born poor, born thick and you judge them for that and have no quarrels with them getting shafted as evidenced by numerous attitudes itt. Same idiots who would rush to inconsistently defend somebody born disabled or ugly no doubt.
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    (Original post by Comedy_Gold)
    Well said please God why can there not be more like you who see the real motives behind EU immigration from the point of view of those who control (or rather don't control) it, politicians on behalf of their party paymasters the multinational companies in search of ever increasing profits out of a working mans wage packet.
    As I understand it, woman also work nowadays. Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news.
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    (Original post by RussellG)
    £14 an hour for lorry drivers sounds overpaid tbh. It's higher than the hourly wages for Mechanical Engineers (Median £10.00, Range £6.44 - £22.11) and Aerospace Engineers (Median £13.00, Range £6.70 - £35.87).
    Try driving through Calais as a lorry driver then tell us they're overpaid
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    (Original post by Comedy_Gold)
    It is a case of hiring imported cheap labour with the same skills as a uk worker but costing less wages to hire them. You can change the skill level to whichever degree you want and this still applies, obvious isnt it?
    This is not what the initial statement implied.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Spain and Portugal have like over 50% youth employment. Their struggles are not because they do not have enough working immigrants to pick oranges or package paella.

    Why should the country be held hostage by the lowest paid and lowest tax earners who use the NHS, Schools and so forth?

    If u want dog eat dog.. capitalism is great.. fine lets be consistent then and have no welfare state, no NHS, privatise everything

    The fact is people hate the working class, born poor, born thick and you judge them for that and have no quarrels with them getting shafted as evidenced by numerous attitudes itt. Same idiots who would rush to inconsistently defend somebody born disabled or ugly no doubt.
    A lot of people are lazy, unreliable and would rather get drunk then get a job. I don't give a monkeys if these people are jobless because no one will employ them even if there are jobs.

    If immigrants want jobs and there are people who want to give them jobs, good luck to them.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Try driving through Calais as a lorry driver then tell us they're overpaid
    Yes, it is hard. I don't mean to underestimate their physically tough environment.

    However, in the same way other jobs are also tough. You can also try studying math, mechanics, physics etc at some engineering school like Imperial, and working at some manufacturing company like Mini, Bentley, Airbus etc, then tell us whether lorry driver are worth being paid more than such engineers or not.

    In the US, for example, mechanical engineers are paid $26 an hour, and aerospace engineers are paid $33 an hour. Whereas lorry drivers are paid $17 an hour. Although different country has different supply and demand, it's quite unlikely lorry drivers are paid more than those jobs. Because it's much harder to find/become qualified mechanical/aerospace engineers than qualified lorry drivers.
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    We don't have an economic problem at the moment. What are you on about?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    A lot of people are lazy, unreliable and would rather get drunk then get a job. I don't give a monkeys if these people are jobless because no one will employ them even if there are jobs.

    If immigrants want jobs and there are people who want to give them jobs, good luck to them.
    Thats a total kop out... I have argued why its immoral and unethical and your response is basically to blame them as being lazy and unreliable so you can justify it to yourself.

    I mean talk about completely validating my point earlier in the thread about how people have such bitter hatred for the unskilled and working class.

    "A lot of immigrants are lazy, unreliable and would rather get drunk than get a job"
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Thats a total kop out... I have argued why its immoral and unethical and your response is basically to blame them as being lazy and unreliable so you can justify it to yourself.

    I mean talk about completely validating my point earlier in the thread about how people have such bitter hatred for the unskilled and working class.

    "A lot of immigrants are lazy, unreliable and would rather get drunk than get a job"
    I don't hate the working class, lots of people are unemployed because they are slobs but thats the truth. If you don't like the truth, stick your head in the sand.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    EU migrants are unequivocally good for the UK. They're more educated and fill skilled jobs that the native population can't.

    Unemployment has been going down for a while. If you're getting outcompeted by people who don't even speak English as a first language, maybe you should've tried harder in school.
    BIG MAN TING you should be a politician
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    I feel like my original reply was too dismissive, and I apologise for that.

    It's a fair point that even graduates can struggle to get employed. But that's because degrees are common now. It's fairly normal to go to uni, and having a degree won't (and shouldn't) guarantee a job. There are a lot more factors that separate the great candidates from the good. People shouldn't be just going to uni and getting a degree, because that's the bare minimum now. People should aim for better universities, better degrees, and to better themselves outside of their degree too. Competition is good because it encourages this, and I don't think it's fair to stifle competition just because some people don't want to compete.
    Your point is rather good. I know loads of Romanian students and they systematically take advantage of everything offered to them by the university: near 100% attendance, English lessons, study skills, volunteering and one or two part time jobs. They leave with a 2:1 or better. Then I see some English students who don't get up for lectures that start at 0900 (too early) or late ones that start at 1500 (too late). They resist volunteering to get new skills (it's boring, or I am too busy) and don't even know what the potential job vacancies are. They hardly engage in 1:1 sessions with lecturers.

    If you want a job you need experience and you can get that from volunteering or doing part time jobs, after all: most university towns contain plenty of employers who want part timers and there are tens of thousands of volunteering posts that only need a small commitment every week. You also need a go-getting attitude and maturity but I would not say that I see that in more than 75% of English students.

    If I were an employer I would probably go for a bi- or tri-lingual Romanian self starter with a 2-1 than a self absorbed loser with a 3rd. Wouldn't you? It's ALL in the CV, and if the CV makes you look like a loser then you probably are one.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    What a silly thing to say....you do realize that when there is an oversupply of labor from the continent companies can get away with paying a very low wage...and dish out ZHC...
    Companies make £££££ profit as a result of exploiting people!
    Only way they'd be able to do this is because British government permits it; nothing to do with migrants who like local people are competing in open market.
    Only way anyone (migrant or otherwise) is taking your job should get is because of one or more of following:-
    1. They are better qualified: suck it up and take advantage of training programs
    2. They are better connected: life ain't fair
    3. They take lower compensation:
    • a. You're overpaid: either go for better job or take pay cut
      b. Minimum wage is low: campaign to increase minimum wage

    No one is entitled to a job; it is a free market and people regardless of their nationality are free to compete with basics such as minimum wage and employee rights set by the sate.
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    If they stopped immigration this would be a problem
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    (Original post by Dann.It)
    They're not 'taking' jobs as you say. They're just more qualified for the job, as opposed to the average British person. You think an employer should just employ you just because of the fact that you're British? Even though you're not qualified enough for the job, and thus unable to do it?
    Exactly. It should be about whether you have the ability to do the job or not. Yes you were born and bred in this country - BUT do you have the right skills for any particular job for example remaining calm when being under pressure, and speak confidently to other people face to face and on the phone?

    (Original post by Maker)
    A lot of people are lazy, unreliable and would rather get drunk then get a job. I don't give a monkeys if these people are jobless because no one will employ them even if there are jobs.If immigrants want jobs and there are people who want to give them jobs, good luck to them.
    Saying from experience of recruiting British workers (I'm in hospitality industry), most of them (especially men) would rather go to a football match or just regularly call in sick or make some pathetic excuse just not to come in. This is the case often especially when it's their first day they are supposed to work.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    It's a fair point that even graduates can struggle to get employed. But that's because degrees are common now. It's fairly normal to go to uni, and having a degree won't (and shouldn't) guarantee a job. There are a lot more factors that separate the great candidates from the good. People shouldn't be just going to uni and getting a degree, because that's the bare minimum now. People should aim for better universities, better degrees, and to better themselves outside of their degree too. Competition is good because it encourages this, and I don't think it's fair to stifle competition just because some people don't want to compete.
    Good points imo

    And they do say a picture paints a thousand words. I therefore give you ......

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