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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    If you honestly think that the EU is sinister and trying to divide Europe I pity you.

    The EU works hand in hand with NATO. NATO is a brawn to the EU's brain. Whilst currently it's been pretty lackluster with the current migrant crisis it's previous involvement with Ireland and other countries has shown how collective support is better than isolated support. Whilst a globalised economy has has helped it's the EU's trade market and services integration which has acted as the medium for globalisation.
    No it isn't. NATO is completely independent of the EU.
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    (Original post by BanterBus69)
    If you want to be living with your parents until you are 50! - Vote Remain.

    If you want to be able to afford to buy your own home - Vote LEAVE.

    Simple supply and demand, really...
    If it's that simple you'll know the only way we'll be able to afford to buy our homes is with an increased supply. If we leave and enact such immigration policies that many Leave groups want we'll have no workforce to build such homes.
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    (Original post by BanterBus69)
    No it isn't. NATO is completely independent of the EU.
    I know that. They can still - and do - work together.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    I know that. They can still - and do - work together.
    And your examples are?
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    (Original post by BanterBus69)
    And your examples are?
    http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49217.htm

    That, in my opinion, sums it up nicely.

    I like the Balkans bit among others.
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    You're sadly just repeating all the drivel that the politicians who get their paycheck from the EU spout out. (No disrespect)

    And ALL of that can be negotiated much more effectively if the UK leaves. Ofcourse there would be negative consequences shortly after the UK leaves, but the long-run effects far outweigh them.

    But sure, if you prefer a vastly undemocratic, overly bureaucratic tool for the politcians at the top to dictate your domestic politics and economics without consent, do your thing.

    In fact, my personal oppinion is that the right for self determination should take precidence, even if the effects are purely negative. (The latter will not be the case if the UK leaves).

    I've heard some good arguments from the pro-EU people, but I've heard 10x as many from the Leave-EU guys.



    Greetings from the land of Lederhosen.
    Greetings.

    This effective renegotiation where we get everything we want is a fantasy. Access to the single market, free movement and EU regulations are all inextricably linked to each other. We cannot on the one hand retain complete access to the single market and on the other adopt our own regulations and ignore EU ones. The two are mutually exclusive, we would need to give something up. Both short-term and long-term, staying in makes more sense economically.

    I'm glad the EU is undemocratic. Were it more democratic, the EU would have a greater mandate and more power.

    We do have self-determination, and this referendum is an expression of that. If the will is there to leave the EU, then we will. Membership of the EU, and consequently the granting of certain powers to EU institutions, is the compromise we choose to make to enhance our economic power and political clout.

    The UK still retains ultimate sovereignty, and we will leave should the people choose to do so. I hope for my part that we choose to remain.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Where did you read about the latter statement? I've read very much, albeit through mediums such as the NFU, farmers are for against the idea of an exit.
    A combination of polling, albeit informal, and simple observation; unions do not necessarily truly represent the majority of their members

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    (Original post by EuanF)
    That's what it likes to masquerade as, but it really isn't. It is a sinister force trying to collectivise Europe against its will. If it truly was about care and European brotherhood, they wouldn't threaten us to scare us and make an example to the rest of the states wanting to leave the EU.

    The mask is slipping.

    (P.S NATO and the globalised economy is the reason there is peace in Europe, not the EU)
    Half conspiracy theory and half speculation on something unknowable!
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Capping roaming charges: one of those things the EU was openly against until a couple of years ago at which point it swooped in on the world doing it for them and said "look what we did!"

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    Soooo when a new president was elected the policy position changed?
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    lol so many idiots of this thread
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Greetings.

    This effective renegotiation where we get everything we want is a fantasy. Access to the single market, free movement and EU regulations are all inextricably linked to each other. We cannot on the one hand retain complete access to the single market and on the other adopt our own regulations and ignore EU ones. The two are mutually exclusive, we would need to give something up. Both short-term and long-term, staying in makes more sense economically.

    I'm glad the EU is undemocratic. Were it more democratic, the EU would have a greater mandate and more power.

    We do have self-determination, and this referendum is an expression of that. If the will is there to leave the EU, then we will. Membership of the EU, and consequently the granting of certain powers to EU institutions, is the compromise we choose to make to enhance our economic power and political clout.

    The UK still retains ultimate sovereignty, and we will leave should the people choose to do so. I hope for my part that we choose to remain.
    The UK is the biggest export market for goods for the rest of the EU; it's greatly in their interest for the EU to continue to trade with us if we were to leave.

    How does its undemocratic nature decrease its mandate and power?

    If we remain, you subject all the leave voters to an undemocratic body, and subject leave voters to only a slight capability for political influence. You take away the democratic power the leave voters have.

    You can't have an undemocratic system whilst we do not; we either both have it or we both don't.

    Hard to explain, but in essence although it might be democratic for you to choose a system you have no influence over, by voting this you're taking my influence over politics away, and that goes the same for all the other leave voters/would-be leave voters.

    The country might have overall chose to stay in, but you've just robbed like 45% of the population of their influence over the laws for their own lives.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I think early evening is best for most people. How many would we want in each team?
    Ok cool, I'm no debating expert so I'm not sure but I think 5 in each team would be nice though I think have 2 people on stand by for each team could be a good idea just in case someone has to drop out!
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    (Original post by Queen Cersei)
    Ok cool, I'm no debating expert so I'm not sure but I think 5 in each team would be nice though I think have 2 people on stand by for each team could be a good idea just in case someone has to drop out!
    Okie Dokie. I'm happy to set up a thread if you want. Which forum do you want it in?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Okie Dokie. I'm happy to set up a thread if you want. Which forum do you want it in?
    Awesome!

    I've just been speaking with Adam about what format it should take etc so maybe have a chat with him?

    I would go for UK Politics and then I can promote all across the site

    (Original post by Adam9317)
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    Just like the housing bubble, remainers are ignoring the immigration bubble about to burst. I am pro immigration and want to keep levels pretty much the same but we need stable figures of immigration otherwise the eu will fail us.

    Good luck to all as reform will never happen so vote leave before it's too late.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    Just like the housing bubble, remainers are ignoring the immigration bubble about to burst. I am pro immigration and want to keep levels pretty much the same but we need stable figures of immigration otherwise the eu will fail us.

    Good luck to all as reform will never happen so vote leave before it's too late.
    Do you not feel we'd be tied to EU immigration regardless of whether we're in or out? At least whilst we're in we can join the discussion on the direction EU immigration. It's undoubtedly a problem, but for me that only stresses why we should say in.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Do you not feel we'd be tied to EU immigration regardless of whether we're in or out? At least whilst we're in we can join the discussion on the direction EU immigration. It's undoubtedly a problem, but for me that only stresses why we should say in.
    We would be as tied as we choose to be (and as tied as people from around the world push us to being)

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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Do you not feel we'd be tied to EU immigration regardless of whether we're in or out? At least whilst we're in we can join the discussion on the direction EU immigration. It's undoubtedly a problem, but for me that only stresses why we should say in.
    No we can reduce our immigration. Anyone who says we need free movement to trade with eu is confused on how trade works. We only need access not a free trade deal.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Do you not feel we'd be tied to EU immigration regardless of whether we're in or out? At least whilst we're in we can join the discussion on the direction EU immigration. It's undoubtedly a problem, but for me that only stresses why we should say in.
    They can't reform free movement in EU as it is trying to merge countries so would go against what they are trying to complete.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    Do you not feel we'd be tied to EU immigration regardless of whether we're in or out? At least whilst we're in we can join the discussion on the direction EU immigration. It's undoubtedly a problem, but for me that only stresses why we should say in.
    Sorry just to add we won't be the only one leaving so we could help others gain courage to leave.
 
 
 
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