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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    I want anyone to tell me, Has the bible been edited by humans to suit their needs?
    Who else is going to edit it? Dolphins?
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    If someone edited it, then how does it become the word of god? The holy books are not meant to be changed in any way.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    To the OP: I personally don't. I would consider Islam rather right wing, if anything.
    Have to agree with this. Islam is VERY right wing.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Who else is going to edit it? Dolphins?
    little green men?
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    Infact
    Smart
    Lefties
    Are
    Majestic
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Nah jk, but I am a lefty, I would not say I love Islam though
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Even if that is true, it makes it very easy to abuse.

    You are quite right violence breeds violence. And now take this kid, one of those you talked about, he hears from you that it is not ok to kill infidel, the part of the text is about something specific not in general. Then comes another person and disagrees with you. And suddenly this kid full of hate has someone telling him it is God's will to kill infidel. Suddenly this kid full of hatred has divine justification.

    That's a pretty strong motive, divine justification. And one that can be abused for so many things. And I am convinced if that divine justification didn't exist, there would be a lot more peace and happiness in the world.
    Whether the kid reads the Quran or not, s/he will no doubt be full of hate.
    If the Chinese army were to come along, rape, torture, abuse and then murder my family right in front of me, I would no doubt become physco. My dreams taking care of my parents, studying, going to school, going to uni, getting a job would be inevitably ruined.
    I honestly do feel sorry for those kids there. That place is absolute hell.
    Now what was the cause of the start of this? Iraq was a prospering oil country with a strong dictatorship rule under Saddam. Now, the US obviously didn't like anything other democracy(which is shown by the Vietnam war) so they tried removing Saddam. Once Saddam was removed and over half a million people killed, the whole country collapsed. Imagine removing the base pillars of a building. The whole building then collapses. Without a leader and many people with full intention of revenge, the place became a breeding site for terrorists.

    Every US official knows that the Iraq war was the worse thing to ever happen this century. Even Donald Trump says that if we never interfered, there would've never been a problem.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Have to agree with this. Islam is VERY right wing.
    Does Islam God not have left wing?

    Discrimination.

    :nutcase:
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Does Islam God not have left wing?

    Discrimination.

    :nutcase:
    But no I can noting of the left in Islam but I can see plenty of the right
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    Now, the US obviously didn't like anything other democracy(which is shown by the Vietnam war) so they tried removing Saddam.
    You need a new history book

    Edit and most people would simply rebuild the base but a little stronger than the last one

    Not go about slaughtering each other with a gay abandon.
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    It's funny how non-muslims act as if they have read the quran to entirety.

    Heck, Arabic speakers NEED a literal translation of the Quran to understand it. People all over the world know this. I have yet to see a single arabic speaker that reads the quran and says that s/he understands it. Yet you guys just pick up quotes and and argue about it.
    I think that you'll find that there have been many scholars who claim to understand it. Thousands of pages have been written to explain it in detail.

    Moreover, what is the use of a final and perfect guide for all humanity that no one can understand? Remember that the Quran is supposed to be perfect, and itself claims that it is "clear" and "explained in detail".

    Your claim makes no sense in this context.


    The Quranic verse about killing all infidels is placed IN the war of Uhud.
    There are many verses that permit, command or recount killing, and some of them have no military or even historical context.
    9:5 explicitly states that the defeated polytheists have a set period to convert or go into exile before they will be hunted down and killed. So no context of war or self-defence.
    5:33 states that death is the punishment for 'waging war and fasad'. Ibn Kathir (one of those many who is acknowledged to have understood the Quran) states that 'wage war' includes "opposition, contradiction and disbelief", and 'fasad' includes disobeying Allah's laws. He also states that the verse is general in use and applies to all those who commit those "crimes". No mention of war or self-defence.
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    "But what's amazing is that they are, certainly on the topic of Islamism, functioning as de facto apologists for theocracy. The fact that they don't see this, or don't care. The fact that identity politics, their concern for generic brown skinned people, or generic immigrants, trumps any concern they should otherwise have about real fascists and real theocracy and real human rights abuses. That still strikes me as somewhat mysterious. I feel like I'm in the presence of people who've made some kind of reverse Faustian bargain. It's like they sold their souls to the devil and got stupid in return."

    Sam Harris
    @HanSoloLuck you seem to have ignored my question. Why are the majority of your posts anti-Islam. Like do you purposely look for them? I answered yours so its only fair

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    If someone edited it, then how does it become the word of god? The holy books are not meant to be changed in any way.
    What do you mean by "edited"? Simply altering the prose to make the message understandable to different readers - or fundamentally changing the message and meaning?

    If it is the former, then what is the problem?
    If it is the latter, then you need to show which parts of the Bible have had the meaning and message changed.

    With regard to the Quran in this context, as you claim that no one understands what it means, how would anyone know if the message had been altered?

    FYI, in the 7th century, Caliph Uthman compiled an approved version of the Quran, and had all those copies that differed destroyed.
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    Whether the kid reads the Quran or not, s/he will no doubt be full of hate.
    If the Chinese army were to come along, rape, torture, abuse and then murder my family right in front of me, I would no doubt become physco. My dreams taking care of my parents, studying, going to school, going to uni, getting a job would be inevitably ruined.
    I honestly do feel sorry for those kids there. That place is absolute hell.
    Now what was the cause of the start of this? Iraq was a prospering oil country with a strong dictatorship rule under Saddam. Now, the US obviously didn't like anything other democracy(which is shown by the Vietnam war) so they tried removing Saddam. Once Saddam was removed and over half a million people killed, the whole country collapsed. Imagine removing the base pillars of a building. The whole building then collapses. Without a leader and many people with full intention of revenge, the place became a breeding site for terrorists.

    Every US official knows that the Iraq war was the worse thing to ever happen this century. Even Donald Trump says that if we never interfered, there would've never been a problem.
    I don't think you understood my point.

    Vengeance yes. Many people carry it out. Movies are made about it.

    But not every person would act on that feeling of wanting revenge. However, if now someone tells you that God said not only it's ok but it should be done anyway, well suddenly the inhibition to act on that desire for revenge is greatly eroded.
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    I'm left wing and I don't like the religion
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    For your point to have any validity you have to provide anything in Buddhist scripture that justifies the killing in Burma and Sri Lanka.
    "...such people blaspheme the Buddha. Killing them would not be wrong."

    You say you know little about it, well do some research, educate yourself. I say you won't find it but am willing to be proven wrong if you can do so.

    I could find scores of invocations to cause violence in the Koran and Hadith as presumably you well know?

    If not, perhaps you should read the Koran and get up to speed?
    I've already made clear that I'm aware of violence in Islamic scripture, just as I'm aware of violence in Christian scripture, so I'm not sure why you are even asking this, let alone in a condescending manner. If I was to be equally condescending I'd suggest you concentrate in keeping up with the contents of the very thread you're posting in and don't worry yourself about my education.

    It's perhaps also important to try to stay on point, so let's do that. I contend that Islam is no more inherently violent that Christianity. Do you disagree? If so, on what basis other than assuming that correlation implies causation?
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    It HAS BEEN POINTED OUT hundreds of times. Every person in the Islamic world knows about this website. This site is known as one of the best places for non-muslims to pick up quotes from and present their argument. It full of lies and even verses are changed. I remember on the news when this popped up when they completely added a new verse to the Quran made by themselves. This was of big concern and there have been attempts to bring down the website.
    I'm not familiar with the website myself (I only use the Quran, hadith and major tafsir). Could you specify some of these lies and the "new verse" because the only references to such things I have found refer to the sites recording of terrorist attacks - not their analysis of the Quran.

    Why would an Islamic country ban an 'islamic website'? In my place, every other website seems to be working fine.
    Erm, it wouldn't. That's kinda the point! Allow propaganda that supports the official position. Ban sources that criticise it.
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    (Original post by shakeebshams)
    Whether the kid reads the Quran or not, s/he will no doubt be full of hate.
    If the Chinese army were to come along, rape, torture, abuse and then murder my family right in front of me, I would no doubt become physco. My dreams taking care of my parents, studying, going to school, going to uni, getting a job would be inevitably ruined.
    I honestly do feel sorry for those kids there. That place is absolute hell.
    Now what was the cause of the start of this? Iraq was a prospering oil country with a strong dictatorship rule under Saddam. Now, the US obviously didn't like anything other democracy(which is shown by the Vietnam war) so they tried removing Saddam. Once Saddam was removed and over half a million people killed, the whole country collapsed. Imagine removing the base pillars of a building. The whole building then collapses. Without a leader and many people with full intention of revenge, the place became a breeding site for terrorists.

    Every US official knows that the Iraq war was the worse thing to ever happen this century. Even Donald Trump says that if we never interfered, there would've never been a problem.
    Cool story bro.

    But what has it got to do with interpreting the Quran?
    And remember that Islamist terrorism existed before the invasion of Iraq.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You need a new history book

    Edit and most people would simply rebuild the base but a little stronger than the last one

    Not go about slaughtering each other with a gay abandon.
    Gay abandon is haraaam!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Cool story bro.

    But what has it got to do with interpreting the Quran?
    And remember that Islamist terrorism existed before the invasion of Iraq.
    The problem I have with posts like this is that you treat Islam like it's the only religion which puts forward a bad agenda. You can interpret the Quran the same way you interpret the Bible.
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    Dude what the **** is your problem
 
 
 
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