Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    If it were a black man, he'd be put in jail a lot longer. So either it is not a long enough sentence, or there is institutional racism against black people. Or both.
    Lmao whoooo repped this? Nowt to do with race. All to do with money! He goes to bloody Stanford mate. And had his daddy speak for him. He's rich. A lot of black especially American men don't go to top unis for whatever reason and then don't have their dads to speak for em.

    This doesn't eliminate the fact that US and the world can be racist and probably systematically so, but if you start confusing situations where race was not involved you'll confuse the situations where race was involved smh. People use racism to ignore classism.

    If he was white and poor and didn't go to Uni he'd probably get longer than 6 mths but granted a black MIGHT get a couple yrs for the same thing. I'm sure there are cases where a black would get no time.

    Chris Brown is black and he beat Rihanna, who is also rich and powerful. And he did no time so. It's about the money.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    How did she know she was raped if she was unconscious during the rape?
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by inhuman)
    For real?

    He most certainly implied it.

    To me it looks like the only one being intellectually dishonest here is you. Ironic that you'd accuse the other user of that.
    lol. it's called the straw man fallacy i believe, when you assume someone holds a belief they don't neccesarily do, and them attack them based off that.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EricPiphany)
    lol. it's called the straw man fallacy i believe, when you assume someone holds a belief they don't neccesarily do, and them attack them based off that.
    Right.

    It's called being a dumbass for denying what something obviously looks like.

    Doesn't even matter what the meaning was. What matters is how something comes across.

    And lord, you are one of those people that cries straw man and ad hominem and thinks it makes you look smart and right. Just stop. Please. It's seriously unbecoming.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ladbants)
    How did she know she was raped if she was unconscious during the rape?
    Someone else saw him

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by dtin)
    Only in America could this happen. Good thing we have EU minimum sentencing that we have to adhere to. Seems like a much better system than America's varying state laws.

    This case was clearly cherry picked out of a huge number. I could find about 15 cases from my city alone, through news sites and my local police force, mostly within the last year, that did get lengthy jail sentences. Yet no one wants to talk about those simply because they were not committed by VIPs. People are only enraged by this one because he's wealthy. Also even if they did give him a longer sentence the general public would react in the usual way they do on the Facebook pages of police forces and news sites whenever a convicted sex offender is brought up with their usual cry of 'BUT X NUMBER OF YEARS ISN'T LONG ENOUGH!' or 'CASTRATE HIM!' or even 'BRING BACK HANGING!'
    Where do you draw the line? Even if he got 10 or 12 years they would still be unhappy.

    Also if you look at the reaction from feminists, they are so quick to jump on the case when an athlete is committing the crime compared to when it's anyone else whether they're a VIP (rich, celebrity) or not because they really hate sportsmen. If you look at the way Ched Evans was treated for a crime he might not have even committed, compared to how high profile sex offenders like Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis, Garry Glitter, Max Clifford and (Jimmy Savile) managed to escape the same level of scrutiny from them for stuff they most definitely did do. How were they any less deserving of the same criticism? And as for sexual offenses committed by normal everyday people, they won't even get off their arse to condemn those, you might as well piss in the wind.

    Sorry chaps, rant over.
    You can't hate Rolf Harris no matyer what he does.

    Animal Hospital was the bedrock of so many people's childhoods.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Is it even the true purpose of imprisonment to provide equivalent suffering, or is it to rehabilitate? Which is most important?
    I agree on this point. I don't think people are properly considering what they really consider to be the purpose of prison etc. Although next to other crimes as they are punished in the US this sentence falls laughably short of proportionate.

    I do, however, think it is legitimate to bring this story up to discuss how race and class can affect Americans' treatment at the hands of their justice system. The story of the black student who came out and discussed how he'd been sentenced to ten years (on the basis of a false accusation) has to make one think.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Well, she was unconcious at the time. Maybe no-one should have told her it happened
    Ayyy lmao

    Brb inviting the football team to get a piece of the action

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nidhoggr)
    You can't hate Rolf Harris no matyer what he does.

    Animal Hospital was the bedrock of so many people's childhoods.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    And you are demonstrating the exact same thing as the people who say Brock Turner shouldn't go to jail because of his character.
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by inhuman)
    Right.

    It's called being a dumbass for denying what something obviously looks like.

    Doesn't even matter what the meaning was. What matters is how something comes across.

    And lord, you are one of those people that cries straw man and ad hominem and thinks it makes you look smart and right. Just stop. Please. It's seriously unbecoming.
    Haha, I don't cry anything, I just call out ********. You sound very tense.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EricPiphany)
    Haha, I don't cry anything, I just call out ********. You sound very tense.
    Oooh tense. Yea, how about you rub my back?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    He has already paid the price, he will likely never get a good job, his future is ruined, he will be branded as a rapist for not only the entirety of his working life but his personal life too.




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by inhuman)
    Oooh tense. Yea, how about you rub my back?
    I'd love to give you massage. Relax you a little if you get me
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I agree on this point. I don't think people are properly considering what they really consider to be the purpose of prison etc. Although next to other crimes as they are punished in the US this sentence falls laughably short of proportionate.

    I do, however, think it is legitimate to bring this story up to discuss how race and class can affect Americans' treatment at the hands of their justice system. The story of the black student who came out and discussed how he'd been sentenced to ten years (on the basis of a false accusation) has to make one think.
    It is a very short sentence, yes. But the point of my post is that it doesn't necessarily bother me that it's short - I'm not outraged. What I was trying to convey (at 2am Eastern) was that I'm not always on board with the masses calling for blood when the authorities show (maybe too much) mercy. The mob takes a very emotional stance on these things: "He caused suffering, so he must suffer to make it right!" But what's done is done to that poor girl. A ten year sentence won't change that. Honestly I'd rather this stint in prison scares him enough to set him straight again, and that he re-enters society as a productive member. I personally wish him no suffering out of revenge or retribution, nor do I hate him. I only pitty him. But that's not how most people think. Do you follow?

    As for the race element, it may or may not have been a factor. What I am against is people claiming to know for sure, despite the absence of proof. Like I said, black people can be treated leniently, and whites harshly, too.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Now do a little experiment for me. First google 'Eritrean asylum seeker jailed for 10 years' and click on the first link, the one from the liverpool echo and then google 'Gun wielding man jailed for 15 years' and click on the first link from the Birmingham mail. You'll realize it was not race that determined their sentencing differences but the very nature of the offenses committed.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    It is a very short sentence, yes. But the point of my post is that it doesn't necessarily bother me that it's short - I'm not outraged. What I was trying to convey (at 2am Eastern) was that I'm not always on board with the masses calling for blood when the authorities show (maybe too much) mercy. The mob takes a very emotional stance on these things: "He caused suffering, so he must suffer to make it right!" But what's done is done to that poor girl. A ten year sentence won't change that. Honestly I'd rather this stint in prison scares him enough to set him straight again, and that he re-enters society as a productive member. I personally wish him no suffering out of revenge or retribution, nor do I hate him. I only pitty him. But that's not how most people think. Do you follow?

    As for the race element, it may or may not have been a factor. What I am against is people claiming to know for sure, despite the absence of proof. Like I said, black people can be treated leniently, and whites harshly, too.
    Yes. I was broadly agreeing with you, subject to the separate point about disproportionality.

    Indeed, and I'd need to see statistics etc, and even then there may be a large element of correlation rather than causation. What is clear is that this particular kid was treated relatively leniently, and at least seemingly so treated for reasons which most of us wouldn't consider relevant in a fair system.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joey11223)
    Out of curiosity on this point what is your view?

    Suppose the flip side of it would be, if a girl doesn't explicitly say "yes", has she consented?
    That's exactly my point.

    A girl doesn't have to speak, and consent can be physical, which is where the confusion lies. I would argue it's usually quite obvious when someone wants sex and when they don't.

    A while ago, someone wrote a perfect explanation of consent, using the metaphor of making tea. This was made into a video and uploaded to YouTube by the Thames Valley police last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

    The confusing matter in the case of Brock Turner, was that he was drunk and claimed he thought she wanted it and didn't realise she had become unconscious. I can understand a guy being unsure about consent, but I can't believe, no matter how drunk, a guy could not know if a girl was conscious or not.

    There was a documentary on BBC3 I think recently, in which they showed teenagers a drama where two drunk teens ended up having sex,and the next day the girl accused him of raping her. The teens were simply asked 'was this rape?' And of course, none of them could agree. The girl didn't say no, but she didn't say yes. She just lay there. Also, she had been flirting with him, and allowed him to sleep next to her. She was conscious while it happened. However, at the end of the drama, the guy was convicted of rape. It was interesting to see how confusing consent can be, and I think it's something that boys and girls should be better educated about.

    As a teenager and young adult, I drank a lot, and definitely ended up in situations where I couldn't remember the night before and woke up in a stranger's bed, or times where I'd just let guys do what they want just to get it over with. It sounds terrible, but it happens a lot. At the end of the day, the girl has the power to decide if she felt like she was assaulted or not, so most of the time the responsibility is with the man to decided if he is taking that risk. My advice would be, make damn sure she wants it before you do anything. If you are unsure, don't do it.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    It is a very short sentence, yes. But the point of my post is that it doesn't necessarily bother me that it's short - I'm not outraged. What I was trying to convey (at 2am Eastern) was that I'm not always on board with the masses calling for blood when the authorities show (maybe too much) mercy. The mob takes a very emotional stance on these things: "He caused suffering, so he must suffer to make it right!" But what's done is done to that poor girl. A ten year sentence won't change that. Honestly I'd rather this stint in prison scares him enough to set him straight again, and that he re-enters society as a productive member. I personally wish him no suffering out of revenge or retribution, nor do I hate him. I only pitty him. But that's not how most people think. Do you follow?

    As for the race element, it may or may not have been a factor. What I am against is people claiming to know for sure, despite the absence of proof. Like I said, black people can be treated leniently, and whites harshly, too.
    I agree with most of what you're saying. Most people I've encountered seem incapable of objectively discussing rape. Most people get far too emotional and personally invested to have a reasonable opinion and reminds me of a quote I heard from Aristotle - 'law is reason free from passion' - the law isn't there to accommodate the emotions of the masses.

    With regard to the second paragraph I'd be inclined to say that what really has an impact is class/wealth/public status. Celebrities and rich people generally get treated more favourably


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    I'm a little bit late on this story, but I want to make a point that 6 months is far too leniant a sentence for the scale of the crime he has committed. He fails to blame anything on himself, and has suggested that peer pressure and alcohol are the reasons for the crime which is going to the ******** as college students would go through peer pressure and alcohol on a regular basis, and not all of them would go on to rape somebody. It's been studied that rapists actually make the attributions about their behaviour that point away from themselves and towards either the victim or alcohol/drugs.

    It's been reported that he has had encounters with the police before, running from them, using drugs and alcohol and all sorts of things, obviously you have to take these things with a pinch of salt - but with the above paragraph describing his criminal ideology, I wouldn't be surprised if these things are true.

    Then there's the reason that the judge said for giving the short sentence, that it would have a severe impact on his future. That's just a bizarre reason, when in court, the sentence should reflect how the victim was affected by the crime and not how the defendant would be affected by the crime in his/her future. This entire reason is just complete garbage in my opinion, and I suggest the judge felt sorry for the accused after they were judged as guilty by the jury, which should not be something that affects the final sentence given. Whilst yes, a sentence for sexual assault will have an impact on his future, as it already has through him being banned from swimming etc. any sentence for a crime would carry those sorts of effects.

    I don't believe race has much of a factor here, considering how laughable the judges reasoning for the sentence is, but, I don't recall ever seeing a black person, or a person of a non-white race for that matter, being given a too leniant sentence for rape (in Western countries).
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Craig1998)
    I'm a little bit late on this story, but I want to make a point that 6 months is far too leniant a sentence for the scale of the crime he has committed. He fails to blame anything on himself, and has suggested that peer pressure and alcohol are the reasons for the crime which is going to the ******** as college students would go through peer pressure and alcohol on a regular basis, and not all of them would go on to rape somebody. It's been studied that rapists actually make the attributions about their behaviour that point away from themselves and towards either the victim or alcohol/drugs.

    It's been reported that he has had encounters with the police before, running from them, using drugs and alcohol and all sorts of things, obviously you have to take these things with a pinch of salt - but with the above paragraph describing his criminal ideology, I wouldn't be surprised if these things are true.

    Then there's the reason that the judge said for giving the short sentence, that it would have a severe impact on his future. That's just a bizarre reason, when in court, the sentence should reflect how the victim was affected by the crime and not how the defendant would be affected by the crime in his/her future. This entire reason is just complete garbage in my opinion, and I suggest the judge felt sorry for the accused after they were judged as guilty by the jury, which should not be something that affects the final sentence given. Whilst yes, a sentence for sexual assault will have an impact on his future, as it already has through him being banned from swimming etc. any sentence for a crime would carry those sorts of effects.

    I don't believe race has much of a factor here, considering how laughable the judges reasoning for the sentence is, but, I don't recall ever seeing a black person, or a person of a non-white race for that matter, being given a too leniant sentence for rape (in Western countries).

    What about that Muslim paedo in Nottingham who was let off because he didn't know it was illegal.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.