Parliament should not invoke Article 50 - the referendum was a farce

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.

    EDIT
    Anyone who agrees that the majority for Leave was far too small to be convincing, can sign the "second referendum" petition, with more than 2m signatures now, which calls for a fairer process.
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
    A huge turnout... a resounding crushing defeat for Remain. There was nothing close in this, we are not talking 5000, we are talking 1.3 MILLION

    Feel free to leave for a country that doesn't like democracy. We will be better for it. Thanks
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Faking majority consent through devious means to obtain an austerity agenda and extreme libertarian policies (see: Gove, Farage, etc) that most people otherwise wouldn't vote for is indeed a kind of fascism.
    Nobody faked majority consent: in 2010 it was a Coalition and then in 2015 the Conservatives won a majority based on an austerity agenda. Everyone knew the Conservatives would pursue an austerity agenda as they had done that in the last 5 years as lead partners in a Coalition! There was nothing fake, it was the same faces, Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Hunt etc we all knew what they were going to do.

    In any case who did you think people would otherwise have voted for if it wasn't for this 'fascism'. Last time we had a Labour government it faked evidence about WMDs in order to justify leading an invasion of another sovereign nation. I'm not sure what we are counting as fascism but that sounds a bit closer to me.
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    Liam Fox, leading Tory Eurosceptic and right winger, speaking tonight:

    “A lot of things were said in advance of this referendum that we might want to think about again and that [invoking article 50] is one of them,” said the Conservative MP.“I think that it doesn’t make any sense to trigger article 50 without having a period of reflection first, for the cabinet to determine exactly what it is that we’re going to be seeking and in what timescale."
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...n-nhs-spending
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    Dear Miss FoS,

    It is an understandable situation that you, like many remainers, are currently in a state of fear and confusion, together with possibly frenzy and tiredness due to a lack of sleep and food.

    It is much advisable that you shut down your computer, open a bottle of wine (perhaps even stronger), snuggle up by the fireplace, maybe watch some Downton Abbey, Pretty Little Liars, or SATC to cool the nerves.

    Then, you can come back on TSR
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You say that, but then you deny the legitimacy of the working class Leave vote, which you regard as brutish and unrefined.

    You have lost your mind. If you want to see a livid working class electorate, undermine the legitimacy of our democracy and further draw into question the legitimacy of the EU, and see UKIP dominate the north and the midlands in the next GE, in the best case scenario, by all means press for this result to be set aside. I hope our leaders will have better sense than that, and I think they will.
    Very well put. An American puts it perfectly:



    I think her views on the working class vote are disgusting. Effectively Full of Surprises is saying: "We know better than you so shut up and do as you are told". The way she talks as if the working class are helpless and duped into voting for Brexit is just insulting and ignorant. I think her PPE has got her a bit sure of herself.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Liam Fox, leading Tory Eurosceptic and right winger, speaking tonight:
    Nothing that you would agree with. He is saying that we should get our act together before starting the two year exit clock (which anyone with sense would agree with), not that we should fail to start the clock.
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    Daily Telegraph journalist Matthew Holehouse suggests the Leave vote legality could be challenged in the European Court.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-like-greece/

    He adds that invoking Article 50 is possibly going to be blocked by Parliament, creating chaotic national political scene.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Daily Telegraph journalist Matthew Holehouse suggests the Leave vote legality could be challenged in the European Court.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-like-greece/

    He adds that invoking Article 50 is possibly going to be blocked by Parliament, creating chaotic national political scene.
    If Juncker screws German taxpayers just to spite the UK, Germany will leave and it's game over. Stop being so goddamn dishonest.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    If Juncker screws German taxpayers just to spite the UK, Germany will leave and it's game over. Stop being so goddamn dishonest.
    Germany is likely to want to enforce some kind of disciplinary measure against the UK as well, otherwise it is effectively encouraging the other EU states to consider leaving. Also, I was quoting Matthew Holehouse, so perhaps you should direct your dishonesty comment to him?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Germany is likely to want to enforce some kind of disciplinary measure against the UK as well, otherwise it is effectively encouraging the other EU states to consider leaving. Also, I was quoting Matthew Holehouse, so perhaps you should direct your dishonesty comment to him?
    If you're posting it, you clearly feel it has intellectual merit, don't try to worm around here. The bureaucrats in Brussels will want to enforce some kind of disciplinary measure against the UK and I'm sure they will try, people with real jobs and real purpose in life are not going to accept their businesses being shot to **** just to make an example. If Juncker plays this the wrong way, other nations will follow us.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.
    I really don't get this argument. Are you saying peoples right to vote should be based on how long they have left to live? What about people such as smokers who have a shorter lifespan? Or people with certain health conditions that shorten their lifespan?
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    I genuinely don't think Article 50 will be called-> http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-th...-is-important/

    The government knows that it would ruin the UK if it was called. PM has resigned and left the responsibility on someone else's shoulders when during the campaign he said it would be called immediately. Leave campaigners eg Boris are saying to wait a while, it's pretty clear there is no plan from the brexiters and they had no intention of winning the referendum.

    I don't understand why it hasn't been called already if it is going to be called at all.
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    (Original post by Naomi265)
    I don't understand why it hasn't been called already if it is going to be called at all.
    I am afraid that says more about you level of understanding than it does about the intention to invoke article 50.

    The government needs several months to consider its strategy for the negotiations, fill the team and generally prepare. The civil service was banned fom putting anything onto paper during the referendum.
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    (Original post by welshiee)

    Hahahahahaha Agreed.



    "Im having a cracking time with these crackers" :

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    Whilst I don't think we should revoke the referendum result - this whole campaign (and result) has really p****d me off. What the British people voted for wasn't just a rejection of the EU - it was very clearly also a protest vote at lying politicians that distort the truth to suit their own agenda instead of running the country in its best interests, in addition to rejecting the somewhat cancerous political correctness that has made politics not daring enough and very centrist.

    Cameron was punished in this referendum for his assurance of immigration going down to the 10s of thousands, Brown was punished in 2010 for calling those who had concerns on immigration bigots. Prime Minister Boris won't be able to put an extra £350 million into the NHS along with preventing immigration whilst also getting free access to the single-market.

    The British public were misled to such a large degree with this referendum (on both sides I must add) which had very large consequences, and my biggest fear is that what many of the Outters really wanted - politics that was more truthful and daring to sort out social issues, won't happen; and that politicians will continue to lie over key issues.


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Whilst I don't think we should revoke the referendum result - this whole campaign (and result) has really p****d me off. What the British people voted for wasn't just a rejection of the EU - it was very clearly also a protest vote at lying politicians that distort the truth to suit their own agenda instead of running the country in its best interests, in addition to rejecting the somewhat cancerous political correctness that has made politics not daring enough and very centrist.

    Cameron was punished in this referendum for his assurance of immigration going down to the 10s of thousands, Brown was punished in 2010 for calling those who had concerns on immigration bigots. Prime Minister Boris won't be able to put an extra £350 million into the NHS along with preventing immigration whilst also getting free access to the single-market.

    The British public were misled to such a large degree with this referendum (on both sides I must add) which had very large consequences, and my biggest fear is that what many of the Outters really wanted - politics that was more truthful and daring to sort out social issues, won't happen; and that politicians will continue to lie over key issues.


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    So many people coming forwards in the media this morning to say that their Leave vote was just a protest and they "never expected it to actually happen".
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    This was an English working class revolt against the establishment. Anger and resentment has been brewing for decades. To then even contemplate basically saying their vote is irrelevant and once again the political elite will do what they want is highly dangerous.
    Lol at students who claim they feel they don't have a voice but then advocate stupid stuff like this.
    If the government does weasel out of leaving the EU I'm staking a large wager on UKIP mopping up every seat outside London and Scotland in the 2020 General Election.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    This was an English working class revolt against the establishment. Anger and resentment has been brewing for decades. To then even contemplate basically saying their vote is irrelevant and once again the political elite will do what they want is highly dangerous.
    Lol at students who claim they feel they don't have a voice but then advocate stupid stuff like this.
    If the government does weasel out of leaving the EU I'm staking a large wager on UKIP mopping up every seat outside London and Scotland in the 2020 General Election.
    The referendum didn't ask people "do you hate the Establishment? - yes/no", so if that was the case, they weren't answering the question they were being asked.

    UKIP will go nowhere after this, they will decline sharply.

    Johnson is firmly on the road to being PM and he isn't and never was a Leaver, so time will tell, but my guess is that in office he will do his best to weasel it and figure out a way to stay in that superficially looks like going along with the referendum. Hardly the sort of stuff to provoke riots in the streets.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The referendum didn't ask people "do you hate the Establishment? - yes/no", so if that was the case, they weren't answering the question they were being asked.

    UKIP will go nowhere after this, they will decline sharply.

    Johnson is firmly on the road to being PM and he isn't and never was a Leaver, so time will tell, but my guess is that in office he will do his best to weasel it and figure out a way to stay in that superficially looks like going along with the referendum. Hardly the sort of stuff to provoke riots in the streets.
    UKIP has continuously been on the increase and events like this show that UKIP (unlike Labour) is the true peoples party.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The referendum didn't ask people "do you hate the Establishment? - yes/no", so if that was the case, they weren't answering the question they were being asked.
    They were when the EU is seen as part of the 'establishment'.

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    UKIP will go nowhere after this, they will decline sharply.

    Johnson is firmly on the road to being PM and he isn't and never was a Leaver, so time will tell, but my guess is that in office he will do his best to weasel it and figure out a way to stay in that superficially looks like going along with the referendum. Hardly the sort of stuff to provoke riots in the streets.
    If you think UKIP will decline if the UK doesn't leave the EU then you're absolutely barmy. Your entire outlook on pretty much everything makes it clear you live in an isolated bubble without any connection to the real world beyond what you read in the Guardian. You'll also have to forgive me if I'm not confident in your predictions anymore after seeing you peg Remain at winning by twenty points.
 
 
 
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