Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Half of Labour Front Bench to Resign watch

Announcements
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Calm down, pet. Try not to be so emotional. I'm a Labour member and Miliband supporter.

    He took to the election policies like breaking up the banks with a market share cap, creating a government bank to compete with the City of London in the small business loan market, repealing the bedroom tax, increasing corporation tax, implementing a new tax on banker bonuses, new tax on bank profits, new rights for tenants and a cap on rent increases, among many others. The idea that he was a Blairite can only come from someone who doesn't actually know much about the Labour Party or what policies he took to the election.

    It looks, like most Corbynites, when we get down to the actual policy detail you just don't have a ****ing clue, do you?
    What condescending guff. What I saw was Ed Balls openly calling for Labour to fight for the centre ground. Scotland, where I lived, lost nearly all of its Labour MPs because of this catch up race with the Tories.

    Don't worry though, oust Corbyn and you won't have to worry about getting my vote.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    It seems quite counterproductive for the membership to force a leader on the party who is incapable of commanding the support of the parliamentary party. If a leader cannot do that, they cannot plausibly carry out the functions of a party leader in a Westminster political system.

    There's a good reason MPs decide who gets on the ballot, and they should exercise that power this time around to exclude Corbyn from the leadership election. He only had around 15 real supporters last time, all of the other nominations came from well-meaning moderate idiots who thought the hard left should have a voice in the leadership election or by calculating individuals who hoped a bad loss would discredit the hard left.

    Corbyn should be kept off the ballot for the good of the party, and such a move by MPs is completely justifiable in light of how parliamentary government works and in light of the fact they have a mandate of 9 million votes in total
    I know you are wetting yourself for Liz Kendall to get made leader.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Section Leader
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Section Leader
    Just waiting for Corbyn to appoint a new shadow and for them to then resign.

    In 3, 2, 1....
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by banterboy)
    i left the labour party because this oft glorified "core support" is just a bunch of conservative, xenophobic, unimaginative, uneducated, anti-intellectual bunch of uncompromising bigots who think "hmm, this works economically, but its not what my dad voted for 20 years...must be some evil tory plot. I wont vote for this lot. What??? dont tell me these policies are in my interests, i wont read them, they arent what ive voted for for 40 years, change requires me to engage my brain and think, we cant have that".

    these people hold the party to ransom now.

    And thus a competent government platform and opposition is gone forever. There is no left wing alternative to the tories now. Might as well vote tory while they occupy the centre ground and support businesses.
    I think that analysis is completely misguided. It doesn't work economically, which is why the NHS is on the route to privatisation, and why hundreds of thousands live off food donations and housing and rent prices and wages at the bottom are impossible. In addition, Blair's 'third way' simply took the worst of the right, a taxation policy that facilitated rapid rise in inequality and an equally radical dip in social mobility, (unless you are ethnic and benefited from 'equality and diversity' legislation), and combined it with the worst of the left, too much spending on an oppressive, overbearing, micromanaging state. It would have been infinitely better to take a progressive tax policy from the left, and a smaller state from the right. They also wrecked civil liberties, alienated the Scottish vote with Iraq, and created the devolution settlement, and in delusion they are blaming everything on Corbyn, when the integrity of the UK was so clearly compromised by all their actions. I'm also an utter loss as to why you regard them as in anyway 'left' of the Tories, Blair's tax and economic policies were to the right of Thatcher, and economics is the really key thing here, they all support social liberalism. Blairites and Cameronites are just the exact same political mentalities, besides maybe some tribalism over what colour rosette you wear and what school you went to. Therein lies the problem, and the fact that Tories and Labour don't represent the social conservatives, who are more concerned over the national interest in their own parties, they only have antiquated tribally based votes left, they really don't represent so many people, they are all part of the same neo-liberal, soulless globalism.
    I agree with one thing, I'd at least rather vote for an honest Tory, than a champagne socialist.

    Oh by the way, it's not xenophobia to realise that mass immigration is simply for the benefit of creating serfdom and wage-compressed labour to make our corporate overlords richer and richer. The EU will also facilitate corporate dictatorship over independent business. Plus more and more authoritarianism and centralized power. Hence my vote to leave.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Midlander)
    What condescending guff. What I saw was Ed Balls openly calling for Labour to fight for the centre ground. Scotland, where I lived, lost nearly all of its Labour MPs because of this catch up race with the Tories.
    Labour lost its seats in Scotland because of the fallout from the indyref. Speak to any SNP supporter and ask them what actual policies make Labour Tory-lite and they can't say (just as you haven't been able to say).

    Don't worry though, oust Corbyn and you won't have to worry about getting my vote.
    You think I really care about the party losing a couple hundred thousand hard leftists? The ousting of those extremists from the party will be a siren call to millions of moderate voters that will far outweigh the loss. If anything pushing you people out of the party and losing your "support" is vital to Labour returning to a position where it can win an election

    And I'm sceptical about whether you're even a Labour voter. Probably vote SNP
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    They also wrecked civil liberties, alienated the Scottish vote with Iraq
    That makes no sense at all. Scotland continued to staunchly support Labour in Westminster elections in 2005 and 2010. It wasn't until 12 years after the Iraq War that we actually saw the SNP pick up the Scottish seats.

    In fact, it was only when the Labour Party tacked to the left under Miliband that Scotland ran to the SNP (who are Tartan Tories anyway). Doesn't say much for the purportedly left-wing orientation of the Scottish electorate
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    In addition, Blair's 'third way' simply took the worst of the right, a taxation policy that facilitated rapid rise in inequality
    The Blair government lifted one million children out of child poverty. They made huge advances in providing government support to parents through redistributive measures like child benefit and working tax credits. They introduced the minimum wage. They invested massively in the NHS after decades of underinvestment where some hospitals hadn't even seen a lick of paint since the Callaghan years. They creates SureStart and a hundred other initiatives, and invested in education.

    The Blair government wasn't by any means a left-wing government. It had both centre-left and centrist instincts. But it's wrong to deny they achieved anything at all
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Midlander)
    Ah yes, because the BBC has no vested interest in getting rid of him. 70% of Labour voters voted Remain, and even more of young people. Answer me these questions:

    1. Who called the referendum?

    2. Who rigged the deck in his favour and used government money to support Remain campaign materials?

    3. Who rushed a series of negotiations and achieved nothing from them?

    4. Who used scare tactics to persuade voters to vote Remain?

    This is David Cameron's doing, entirely. To blame Labour for not getting him out of his own mess is a ****ing joke.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Plenty of blame to go around. David Cameron should never have called the referendum and the Remain campaign was generally appalling . But that does not excuse Corbyn from going to great efforts to internally sabotage the campaign. Calling Corbyn out for his mistakes does not automatically mean I am excusing the litany of other screw ups, don't be so partisan.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    The Blair government lifted one million children out of child poverty. They made huge advances in providing government support to parents through redistributive measures like child benefit and working tax credits. They introduced the minimum wage. They invested massively in the NHS after decades of underinvestment where some hospitals hadn't even seen a lick of paint since the Callaghan years. They creates SureStart and a hundred other initiatives, and invested in education.

    The Blair government wasn't by any means a left-wing government. It had both centre-left and centrist instincts. But it's wrong to deny they achieved anything at all
    They begun the marketization of the NHS, undeniably. They stifled it and wasted money with bureaucrats and targets, as they did in education. They had a mimimum wage, so what, against inequality, and the rise in house and rent prices and all it was absolute peanuts.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    The Blair government lifted one million children out of child poverty. They made huge advances in providing government support to parents through redistributive measures like child benefit and working tax credits. They introduced the minimum wage. They invested massively in the NHS after decades of underinvestment where some hospitals hadn't even seen a lick of paint since the Callaghan years. They creates SureStart and a hundred other initiatives, and invested in education.

    The Blair government wasn't by any means a left-wing government. It had both centre-left and centrist instincts. But it's wrong to deny they achieved anything at all
    But still, Blair was and still is, a total and utter **** head. Same goes for Gordon Brown.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Keep him so that we can win the next election.
    For the Tories
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    The Labour implosion truly is better than any soup opera . Bring on the Tory landslide


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Midlander)
    I know you are wetting yourself for Liz Kendall to get made leader.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Politics nerds trying to trash talk

    Tragic
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    For the Tories
    Yeah I support the Conservative party.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Labour lost its seats in Scotland because of the fallout from the indyref. Speak to any SNP supporter and ask them what actual policies make Labour Tory-lite and they can't say (just as you haven't been able to say).
    You think I really care about the party losing a couple hundred thousand hard leftists? The ousting of those extremists from the party will be a siren call to millions of moderate voters that will far outweigh the loss. If anything pushing you people out of the party and losing your "support" is vital to Labour returning to a position where it can win an election

    And I'm sceptical about whether you're even a Labour voter. Probably vote SNP
    What astonishing arrogance. Need I remind you about the Ed Stone which proudly claimed 'Tough on Immigration'? The party seemed ashamed of sticking up for the welfare state and promised cuts, just at a reduced or staggered rate than the Conservatives. How was it that many people claimed not to be able to distinguish the Labour Party from the Tories?

    Labour were in decline in Scotland for years, the independence referendum was only part of that. It was not just a tsunami of nationalism but years of taking Scottish votes for granted and becoming lazy at Holyrood.'I didn't leave Labour, Labour left me', was the view that I heard more than anything else. I am not a far left winger. All I am seeking is a Labour Party that is clearly opposed to the Tories. Harriet Harman and her abstainers do not fit the bill.

    FYI I voted Lib Dem last year to try and keep the SNP out. It narrowly failed.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fenice)
    Politics nerds trying to trash talk

    Tragic
    What trash talk?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aj12)
    Plenty of blame to go around. David Cameron should never have called the referendum and the Remain campaign was generally appalling . But that does not excuse Corbyn from going to great efforts to internally sabotage the campaign. Calling Corbyn out for his mistakes does not automatically mean I am excusing the litany of other screw ups, don't be so partisan.
    If he did sabotage it he wasn't very effective. Once again, 70% of Labour voters chose to Remain, only slightly lower than the Lib Dems, and much higher than the Conservatives. Corbyn set out a case for Remain centred around making the EU work better, Cameron set out the case that the elderly would lose their pensions and that the sky would fall in.

    If you have independent evidence of deliberate sabotage on his part that's a different story. As I say though, he didn't do a great job of it if that was his intention.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    But this is it. There are swathes of Labourites (ie the Momentum lot) who genuinely think that people like Diane Abbot are more plausible than Hilary Benn. How they think the electorate would agree with them in a million years is beyond me. I for one wouldn't trust an entity with such a collective lack of judgment. It is this collective lack of judgment that switched me off Labour when they voted in Ed as leader. As a collective they thought that Ed Milliband was electable even though it was obviously an insane position. I cannot trust this group to run the country. Now all of this. They're finished in my eyes and in those of most of the country, I'm afraid.
    Ed Miliband increased the Labour vote in England by 1.5% ie1% more than Cameron increased the Conservative vote.

    Incidentally the Labour party left office with an economy that was growing but you'd never guess from the lies told by the Tories. It was George Osborne's cuts that made the growth disappear. ( he'd not read many economics books .)
    • Section Leader
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Section Leader
    Fear not. It looks like the correct Miliband is on his way...

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As far as l am aware Labour in Scotland was still doing pretty well there before the Scottish referendum, they still had a massive following prior to the referendum for independence.
    The problem really began when they stood with the Tories and introduced project fear on the Scots during that campaign which at the time the Scottish people seemed to start believing especially the older generation as they had no other way of knowing what they were threatening them with should they vote for independence would turn out to be completely untrue. Such as, you will have no pensions or no money in your bank on the morning of the 19th September 2014 if you vote for independence , the nation will be completely bankrupt.
    They tried the exact same during this EU referendum, word for word exactly the same script of trying to scare people and l congratulate Corbyn for taking one step back and being more reluctant to subject the English and Welsh people to exactly the same fear factor. it almost worked for them again but with over a million from north of the border pushing that leave vote through, it left Westminster gaga. The Scots now look on labour with complete hatred.
    Once you start threatening people regarding money an offensive poster seems to become trivial.

    There has been no punishment budget , that's not going to happen, the pension lock is not likely to happen ++++
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.