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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Here's the full thing on his blog thingy.

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/my-t...f88#.5fbm2rwd0

    Pretty much where I would sit if I was in the labour party.
    Jinx. I was just reading through.

    Surely people like Owen Jones now owe those Labour members who predicted this all along an apology?
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    #MayforPM
    #Torylandslide2020
    She has blown a lot of support by being a remainer. Cannot have a Brexit PM not being an actual Brexit supporter
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Surely people like Owen Jones now owe those Labour members who predicted this all along an apology?
    Nope
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Lets de-bunk this myth that Jeremy Corbyn was not to blame for the loss of the referendum for remain. Labour heartlands in the north voted decisively for Leave. Bolsover voted strongly for leave. Sunderland voted to leave. Newcastle nearly voted leave - despite its large student population. Birmingham voted leave - despite the vast majority of its MPs being Labour. Wales too fell for leave. Young remain voters (who mostly support Labour) didn't vote. The English areas that voted to stay were actually only London and a lot of Southern Tory-held areas (Cotswolds, Tunbrige Wells etc). The Tories clearly didn't fail as much in the campaign in getting its supporters to vote remain, but very clearly Labour did.

    Now WHY is it Corbyn's fault you might ask. I question you, where was he on the campaign? What was he doing? He had a duty to lead on this key issue but didn't. Indeed for many, his highlight on the campaign was saying the EU was a 7/10 on a C4 chat-show.

    Privately however, it is abundantly clear that he derailed the campaign.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

    To paraphrase if you can't be bothered to read it:
    -Corbyn deliberately watered down his campaign, removing elements about immigration that were agreed by the PLP as a whole.
    -Corbyn was too reluctant to give any support to the campaign

    http://www.politico.eu/article/how-d...ssina-obama/To paraphrase this if you can't be bothered to read it:-Corbyn refused to cooperate with the remain campaign as a whole (standing by Cameron) to show cross-party unity to leave the EU, which was shown to be the best way of gaining voters.-Corbyn was selfish enough to prevent giving their voter registration lists with Stronger IN, fearing the Tories would use it against them
    There is more from Alan Johnson but its on the Guardian's livefeed but I thought you would dismiss it as being too Blairite.



    As a Labour supporter, do you honestly think then that everyone else in PLP do not want to 'help people who are less fortunate' ? You don't think that leaving the EU will harm the poor in this country more than staying in, something he clearly inhabited? Really?
    Firstly, he handled the referendum perfectly in that he let people decide for themselves what they wanted. He did give the facts and said what he thought and allowed people to make their minds up. That is democracy. He didn't tell lies like the others is that what you wanted to see him lowering himself to the level of other politicians?

    Secondly, I'm a Corbyn suppoter and he has brought a different kind of politics and I do feel he can make a real difference. The labour MPs obviously don't like that. The other labour leaders have ruined the country and they will probably continue in future people have lost trust. Corbyn was different hence different and new people support him now. Labour will just be the same as it was once he has gone i think like the other labour leaders have done. Then it is the tories which are the best party. At least they've had a positive impact
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    yes and he can stand election again and i will gladly vote for him again along with the majority of the labour members. labour needs to realise that jeremy corbyn represents what a lot of people want and they are the ones who are going to have to adapt. they have 0 chance of winning the next election if he is not leader, mark my words. this is the first time in a long time a lot of the general public have had faith in Labour.
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    (Original post by Moura)
    they have 0 chance of winning the next election if he is not leader
    If you think that then you really don't have your finger on the pulse of the nation.

    You shouldn't confuse what goes on on Twitter with the real world; in the real world Corbyn is considered a joke, at best, and a menace at worst. I hear this all the time on the doorstep from Labour supporters.

    In fact, this most recent poll that has the Tories 4 points ahead also showed that 53% of 2015 Labour voters want Corbyn to resign.
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    (Original post by Kryptonian)
    Firstly, he handled the referendum perfectly in that he let people decide for themselves what they wanted. He did give the facts and said what he thought and allowed people to make their minds up. That is democracy. He didn't tell lies like the others is that what you wanted to see him lowering himself to the level of other politicians?

    Secondly, I'm a Corbyn suppoter and he has brought a different kind of politics and I do feel he can make a real difference. The labour MPs obviously don't like that. The other labour leaders have ruined the country and they will probably continue in future people have lost trust. Corbyn was different hence different and new people support him now. Labour will just be the same as it was once he has gone i think like the other labour leaders have done. Then it is the tories which are the best party. At least they've had a positive impact
    1) You are effectively justifying the fact that he did nothing in the campaign.There is nothing undemocratic about having a line of argument, yet he hardly expressed an argument. There was a complete and utter lack of leadership on his part in persuading Labour's core support. Funny how you also didn't counter any of the points I made about Labour Heartlands voting to leave and how decisive they were on the result. Which he - if anyone, had the best chance to persuade. He could have presented the 'The Facts' at any debate, of which he was in none. Can you say the same about Cameron's visibility in the campaign?

    2) The 'real difference' you speak of has been perhaps the weakest opposition I think Labour has had in its history. He has been awful at PMQs. I don't know any example of 70% of a Cabinet resigning in the space of 3 days. I don't know how someone who lost a vote of no confidence, AMONGST HIS MPs, can have any legitimacy when the electorate at large arguably voted for a moderate Labour party as opposed to Extremist Corbyn's. I use 'Extremist' with great caution, but I think it is very appropriate to a man who has labelled Hamas 'his friends', has suggested a programme of 'People's QE' ie printing money as a solution to solving the country's economic woes, and has the arrogance of continuing in the face of all the facts.
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    He lost a vote of no confidence to a bunch of self serving Blairites. They're a bunch of Conservatives in red suits pretending to represent the working class. He should just kick all of them out and carry on with the socialist party Labour is.

    If he kicked them all out you'd see all these self serving scumbags for what they are. They'd all join the Lib Dems or the Tories proving they do not care about their political principles but only care about their own careers. If Corbyn is forced out and replaced by a Blairite that is the end of the UK. Absolutely finished.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    He lost a vote of no confidence to a bunch of self serving Blairites. They're a bunch of Conservatives in red suits pretending to represent the working class. He should just kick all of them out and carry on with the socialist party Labour is.

    If he kicked them all out you'd see all these self serving scumbags for what they are. They'd all join the Lib Dems or the Tories proving they do not care about their political principles but only care about their own careers. If Corbyn is forced out and replaced by a Blairite that is the end of the UK. Absolutely finished.
    Totally agree with u
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    He obviously has to go but after the chilcot report and after he calls for the arrest of tony blair
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    It would be absolutely hilarious if he was automatically on the ballot and won again.

    That said, I don't think he'll automatically be on the ballot - or at least, there'll be a legal battle over that.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    1) You are effectively justifying the fact that he did nothing in the campaign.There is nothing undemocratic about having a line of argument, yet he hardly expressed an argument. There was a complete and utter lack of leadership on his part in persuading Labour's core support. Funny how you also didn't counter any of the points I made about Labour Heartlands voting to leave and how decisive they were on the result. Which he - if anyone, had the best chance to persuade. He could have presented the 'The Facts' at any debate, of which he was in none. Can you say the same about Cameron's visibility in the campaign?

    2) The 'real difference' you speak of has been perhaps the weakest opposition I think Labour has had in its history. He has been awful at PMQs. I don't know any example of 70% of a Cabinet resigning in the space of 3 days. I don't know how someone who lost a vote of no confidence, AMONGST HIS MPs, can have any legitimacy when the electorate at large arguably voted for a moderate Labour party as opposed to Extremist Corbyn's. I use 'Extremist' with great caution, but I think it is very appropriate to a man who has labelled Hamas 'his friends', has suggested a programme of 'People's QE' ie printing money as a solution to solving the country's economic woes, and has the arrogance of continuing in the face of all the facts.
    Are you for real? You've just made an absolutely disgusting and offensive comment. Are you referring to me as such for being a Corbyn supporter? I sincerely hope not.
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    (Original post by Moura)
    . they have 0 chance of winning the next election if he is not leader, mark my words. r.
    I actually thought this was a typo.
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    (Original post by Kryptonian)
    Are you for real? You've just made an absolutely disgusting and offensive comment. Are you referring to me as such for being a Corbyn supporter? I sincerely hope not.
    Now you are trying to divert the attention away from the central argument.

    Take it how you will. I don't pander to political correctness. You tell me whether you think labelling Hamas 'friends' is an extremist point of view. Or his economic policy where no credible economist has supported (i.e extreme).
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Now you are trying to divert the attention away from the central argument.

    Take it how you will. I don't pander to political correctness. You tell me whether you think labelling Hamas 'friends' is an extremist point of view. Or his economic policy where no credible economist has supported (i.e extreme).
    That is because you made a shocking statement.
    Show me where he said that? Where is your proof. When you make statements back it up
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    (Original post by Kryptonian)
    That is because you made a shocking statement.
    Show me where he said that? Where is your proof. When you make statements back it up
    I'm laughing so hard right now.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7012821.html

    A Corbyn supporter who doesn't know how extremist Corbyn is.
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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    He HAS to step down, honestly I was a corbynite till this week, he's being stubborn, he has to realise he can't win an election. By staying, he is ensuring the conservatives gain more votes than ever and possibly is allowing UKIP to get votes in Labour heartlands.
    You fool, Labour don't want to win elections.

    (Original post by Snufkin)
    He must go, but he probably won't - he has too much pride to stepdown. I don't understand why so many people value Corbyn's continued 'leadership' more than Labour winning the next general election. It really does beggar belief.
    This is entirely the point, they don't care if they lose (the members don't) because they at least have a principled leader who they fantisise about.

    Unfortunately for Labour there are two real problems related to each other..

    1) A large number of labour members (not voters, they don't mind him in polls) look back at their time in office and see nothing beyond Iraq, it's like a form of shell shock.

    2) In the past 40 years (the UK's entire membership of the EU ironically) only one leader has being able to beat the Tories and that leader capitulated to the Tories on numerous issues. This means that in most of their lifetimes, they've never had a proper socialist in power.

    Basically this has created a cult of people willing to lose elections just so long as they actually have a leader they can fap about.
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    Its getting even clearer now in the fight for
    Official PM Highly Likely Provision PM Boris Johnson, who says the market and pound was stable whilst it plunged for a 2nd time
    Jeremy Corbyn, who can't win a "no-confidence vote" but will still be leader because he'll win the vote with members, all Labour can do it repeat the process but Jeremy will always win it.
    Tim Farron, who runs for L-lib dems?(they still exist?), also wants a 2nd referendum, I'm sure he'll lose in Lib Dem fashion (emphatically).
    Nigel Farage, who now won't have the protest votes to back him, leaver voters will back him, yet all Leavers are trying to distance themselves him now (I count that as 2 back-stabs for Boris now, watch you back Gove!!)And whoever
    Green Party put up so that BBC and C4 can use all the 5 podiums they bought last year.

    The fact is unless Jeremy is nominated, then they have a situation where someone who is barely known is suddenly put up for nomination of PM, which won't feel right.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    He lost a vote of no confidence to a bunch of self serving Blairites. They're a bunch of Conservatives in red suits pretending to represent the working class. He should just kick all of them out and carry on with the socialist party Labour is.

    If he kicked them all out you'd see all these self serving scumbags for what they are. They'd all join the Lib Dems or the Tories proving they do not care about their political principles but only care about their own careers. If Corbyn is forced out and replaced by a Blairite that is the end of the UK. Absolutely finished.
    Is Miliband a self serving Blairite? In fairness to a lot of labour MP's, most of them are more Miliband (i.e. soft left) than Blair.

    I'd say there's a good argument to say that a republican who wants the flaklands gone, can't be trusted with the union (sympathies for sinn feinn) and has expressed a desire to leave NATO probably can't win an election without a massive shock event. Hell, at this stage last parliament Miliband had them on 38% in the council elections, Corbyn managed all of 31%.

    I'd also point out that euro-skeptic or not, a man who believes in diversity, refugees and mass immigration basically had his parties voters tell them to go screw themselves.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Corbyn PLEASE stay on. Apparently internal labour polling has shown that if you do labour will be reduced to 75 MPs if an election was called now. #ToryLandslide


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lies. Tony Blair needs to come back. He wouldn't put up with the left wing garbage Jeremy has done. We stand behind you Tony
 
 
 
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