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    Ideologically if uncertainty wasn't a issue I think the vast majority of us Scots would leave the UK in a heartbeat if we could even before this probably disastrous Brexit. The main reasons most people that I know decided to stay were:

    1. The economic and political stability of staying in the UK
    2. The fact that we were supposedly guaranteed to be in EU if we remained (Brexit wasn't mentioned much in 2014 and even after few took it seriously)

    Seeing as these two points are no longer valid I think if a 2nd indyref happened yes would win.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    No it doesn't.
    In the context of eu issues it does


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    (Original post by paul514)
    In the context of eu issues it does


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    No it doesn't.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    No it doesn't.
    Care to expand.....


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Care to expand.....


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    Well, I fail to see how you're any position to wave away the concerns of Scottish Remain voters just because we may rejoin the single market. The EU is much more than just trading agreements...
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Well, I fail to see how you're any position to wave away the concerns of Scottish Remain voters just because we may rejoin the single market. The EU is much more than just trading agreements...
    Such as? I asked you to expand


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Such as? I asked you to expand


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    People gave more than one reason to Remaim... yes? So how can you address one of them and expect all their reasons to be resolved?
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    (Original post by Scottish Person)
    Ideologically if uncertainty wasn't a issue I think the vast majority of us Scots would leave the UK in a heartbeat if we could even before this probably disastrous Brexit. The main reasons most people that I know decided to stay were:

    1. The economic and political stability of staying in the UK
    2. The fact that we were supposedly guaranteed to be in EU if we remained (Brexit wasn't mentioned much in 2014 and even after few took it seriously)

    Seeing as these two points are no longer valid I think if a 2nd indyref happened yes would win.
    Well I hope you get the same deals as us, if you rejoin the EU they may force 300,000 immigrants per anum on you and they can just move across the fictional border and 17 million voted to reduce immigration
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    Sturgeon has to be careful. If a second indy ref is defeated it'll probably mean the end of her politically, and likely the speeding up of the SNP decline.

    Neverendum isn't just bad for Scotland, it'll ultimately ruin the SNP.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    People gave more than one reason to Remaim... yes? So how can you address one of them and expect all their reasons to be resolved?
    You don't need to resolve all the issues just the main ones.

    Those would be the rights to live and work in the eu

    Being unrestricted in the single market.

    Very few people will have voted to remain in the eu for reasons other than those


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    (Original post by paul514)
    You don't need to resolve all the issues just the main ones.

    Those would be the rights to live and work in the eu

    Being unrestricted in the single market.

    Very few people will have voted to remain in the eu for reasons other than those


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    Proof of this? I think you're speculating on things you know little about.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    It's not laughable and proof is that Scotland wants to leave the UK because they don't want to accept a decision made by the English. If I was wrong,why would Scots want to leave the UK exactly after this referendum?
    I'm not sure it's particularly established that they do. You've seen a couple of knee-jerk polls (and pollsters aren't exactly the flavour of the month at the moment) who have put support for independence within the margin of error, once "don't knows" are removed. I'm afraid you're going to have to do a bit better than that to establish there is a majority for independence in Scotland.
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    (Original post by Scottish Person)
    Ideologically if uncertainty wasn't a issue I think the vast majority of us Scots would leave the UK in a heartbeat if we could even before this probably disastrous Brexit. The main reasons most people that I know decided to stay were:

    1. The economic and political stability of staying in the UK
    2. The fact that we were supposedly guaranteed to be in EU if we remained (Brexit wasn't mentioned much in 2014 and even after few took it seriously)

    Seeing as these two points are no longer valid I think if a 2nd indyref happened yes would win.
    I think the polling ahead of the 2014 referendum demonstrated something fairly consistently: that there was a solider base of support for the union. The problem is existential nationalists and existential unionists don't form a majority: the question is largely left to the around 20-30% of people in the middle.

    I find it incredible that so few people took the possibility of a Brexit vote seriously. Realistically there was going to be a referendum on the EU one way or another - it had gained an irresistible popularity and if the Conservatives didn't bring it forward, Labour would have. Did people think that the bonds of affection were so great between the UK and the EU? Did they think populist nationalism could make gains once it was given a platform, as in Scotland? At the risk of being bluntly insulting: anyone who didn't take the risk of leaving in this referendum seriously was an absolute moron. The only problem is there are several significant political figures and commentators who it appears are, in fact, morons.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Sturgeon has to be careful. If a second indy ref is defeated it'll probably mean the end of her politically, and likely the speeding up of the SNP decline.

    Neverendum isn't just bad for Scotland, it'll ultimately ruin the SNP.
    I was a bit silly before the 2014 referendum: I thought there would be a modicum of gentlemanly conduct and good grace, and that the result would be accepted by both sides. It wasn't and the nationalists started agitating for a second referendum almost immediately.

    This was electorally good for them because it didn't raise the obvious but difficult-to-answer question: "if independence is off the table, what is the point of the SNP?". Yes, an unsuccessful second referendum may well kill Sturgeon's political career and the fate of the SNP for a generation - on the latter point, I wouldn't be so sure - but the same outcome happens anyway if they do nothing and that difficult question is asked.

    Hence we see this ludicrous dance where there's no actual call for a second referendum, yet the SNP feel they have to speak about it constantly. It's to fill a void that might otherwise be filled with speculation about their own position. How long they can keep this up with increasingly worked-up footsoldiers and an increased number of fairly extreme people among their parliamentary ranks though remains to be seen. We may again see open infighting along the old division of gradualists and fundamentalists.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Proof of this? I think you're speculating on things you know little about.
    Alright, tell me the major issues for remain voters other than those two.

    Anything that more than say a tenth of the voters are out raged over.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Alright, tell me the major issues for remain voters other than those two.

    Anything that more than say a tenth of the voters are out raged over.



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    Ideology. Peace. Democracy. Human rights. Funding. Stability. Union.

    There are more of course.
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    When we get our trade deals lined up they'll regret even having the first referendum and questioning our abilities.
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    Yes they can.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    Ideology. Peace. Democracy. Human rights. Funding. Stability. Union.

    There are more of course.
    So you think more than 10% of people voted for those words?

    Peace - nato

    Democracy - have a laugh elected representatives cants initiate legislation and there are people we can't elect or get rid of.

    Human rights - this is British law any change in those rights needs to be debated and voted on.

    Funding - we currently pay 10.6 billion more in than we get out of the eu funding can continue.

    All the above are just crap

    Union and stability - in what sense? Union just sounds like a platitude.

    Stability would come straight back with an efta deal that's the single market.

    You failed to come up with anything serious that wouldn't be solved by an efta deal


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    (Original post by Platopus)
    If they want another referendum, I say it's only fair to let them have it. They voted to remain part of a UK in the EU. Circumstances have changed now that the UK is leaving the EU. Besides, the EU might not necessarily accept an independent Scotland and it would be hilarious if they left the UK to remain part of an EU which subsequently rejected them.
    BUT, they knew every chance the UK would leave the EU
 
 
 
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