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Brexit: China wants UK trade deal ASAP, frustrated with EU's failure to conclude one watch

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    (Original post by Josb)
    A free trade deal with China would be a mistake. I think that such deals should only be made with countries on a similar level of development.
    Explain "similar level of development"?

    The whole rationale behind "Free" trade and Economic in general, is that we trade because of comparative advantage i.e. we are good at producing "A", they're good at producing "B". We want "B" and they want "A" so we trade, and both are better off. The trade rational does not distinguished between rich/poor countries, development cycles, technological developments, political systems etc etc.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Typical TSR :rolleyes:

    Still, there is a chance that English isn't your first language (you seem pretty triggered by the suggestion that China doesn't have a monopoly over the high-tech industries, so perhaps you are Chinese), so there might be a simple misunderstanding. I'll post the full conversation here, in case that helps clear it up

    generallee: Hard to find anything (manufactured) nowadays that wasn't made in China...
    Mathemagicien: Look at high tech/high quality goods, they often come from Germany and the US
    Sebastian Bartlett: You forget the largest producers of high tech products, South Korea, Japan oh and you guessed it China.
    Mathemagicien: You forget that that wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list. But anyway, it looks like some people disagree with you. http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/c...h-exports.html ranks top high tech exporters in this order: China, Germany, US, Singapore, South Korea, France, Japan
    Sebastian Bartlett: That link actually proves me right, ranks China as number 1.
    Mathemagicien: The link proves you wrong, ranking South Korea and Japan lower down than Germany and the US
    Sebastian Bartlett: Love how you ignore the original comment you commented on clearly aimed at discrediting his post about China being dominant. I then mentioned the largest producers which include SK and Japan. Stop trying to beat around the bush, proved you wrong, get over it..
    Doesn't the table shows both of you to be correct? (give or take a few places, remember there're some 300 countries in the world).
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I wanted Hilary Benn, but alas, he chickened out.

    Tbh, I think the referendum shows clearly why Corbyn isn't up to it - he's a Leaver, he's always been a Leaver and he still is a Leaver. Why the hell didn't he say so then? If he had an ounce of real guts he would have done. Instead, we were treated to the farce that he was supposedly for Remain, but utter silence from him at nearly every important stage. He's popped up after the result for example to show his opposition to racism and immigrant-bashing, but not to my knowledge during it. He makes tweets and says the odd thing, but generally he hates appearing in the media, he dislikes interviews and he won't participate in most things he is invited to. Do you not think that as a minimum he should (a) be honest about his views and (b) as a basic for a modern leader, engage with the media?

    I'm sure he's a decent guy (although it's clear that at times he is still engaged in SWP-style Trot organising and the sneaky internal manipulations that go with that) but he isn't the leader of a national party of opposition, he's a factionalist and he represents a small element, albeit, a well organised one via social media and the disastrous 'instant voting membership for £3' policy sufficient to get him in against the lacklustre people who stood against him.

    However, I agree that Labour generally is in disarray and suffering from a chronic lack of leadership across the board, as we saw with Benn and Umunna. The after-effects of cynicism around Blair are also keeping supporters away and potential leaders below the parapet.
    This pretty much sums up what the Parliamentary Labour Party's problems are right now; they simply do not have any talent in there. I mean, you compare them to the Tories, or even the SNP or UKIP and it's actually frightening, that the Opposition are so devoid of ability. If there was even one strong, charismatic, effective politician in there, they could easily win a leadership contest against Corbyn. I mean, Corbyn took the legs out from under the Remain campaign and has proved over and over that he will not be able to defeat the Tories in a general election. His stock isn't going to get much lower, and yet the PLP are terrified to run someone against him. Because who will they run? Angela Eagle is going to launch a challenge supposedly, and she is hardly a particularly inspiring suggestion. If it goes to the Labour party members as a choice between Corbyn and Eagle, Corbyn will win again.

    I think what this really shows is just how wrong positive discrimination can go. Labour have spent years running women-only shortlists, pushing for people who are black or asian or Muslim of Jewish or some other minority, to try to make themselves more 'diverse'. And then they've promoted them through the party far quicker than their ability merited, all in the interest of equality. It's crippled the PLP. Just look at Diane Abbott; she is the epitome of what the Labour party has become. The only reason she has held the positions she has, is because she's a black woman.

    You compare it to the Tories. They've resisted all the pressures to bring in positive discrimination or quotas, and sure, maybe they've got a few less woman and ethnic minorities (I don't know the figures so couldn't say for sure). But if we look at quality, the Tories are walking it. They have without a doubt the best female politicians, the best black politicians, the best asian politicians etc. Theresa May, Andrea Leadsom, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Penny Mordaunt, Justine Greening, Nicky Morgan, Amber Rudd, Theresa Villiers, Baroness Warsi and I could go on. Because they had to get there on merit. I mean, look at the leadership contest. No one even suggested 'Oh, we must have a woman on the ballot otherwise it wouldn't be very fair' like they did during the ballot for the Labour party leadership. And what do we find? The Parliamentary Conservative Party actually ends up deciding it should be a choice between two women on the ballot, because they were deemed the most suitable for the role.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    The UK should take every opportunity that the EU held it back from. If it does so, it could really succeed. If it doesn't, it'll crash and burn. This is very important stuff.
    The UK should take the opportunity to have its market flooded with cheap chinese goods created by people working for £0.5 an hour. If this idiotic idea actually happened, then your standard tory line of 'colored people take muh job' would actually happen. You are so ignorant that you don't even know what you are cheering for.
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    (Original post by Fred5134)
    The UK should take the opportunity to have its market flooded with cheap chinese goods created by people working for £0.5 an hour. If this idiotic idea actually happened, then your standard tory line of 'colored people take muh job' would actually happen. You are so ignorant that you don't even know what you are cheering for.
    If you're going to begin by pigeonholing me and assuming certain things about my views, there's no point in me attempting to have a discussion with you. I'm interested in arguments, and I gather from your comment that you seem interested in trying to discredit your own conception of someone who represents an enemy which you feel righteous in fighting against. I am of course making an assumption about you now, but then again, it's all there in your comment. Your assumptions, however, come from nothing but conventions in thinking which you've apparently absorbed.
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    (Original post by Fred5134)
    The UK should take the opportunity to have its market flooded with cheap chinese goods created by people working for £0.5 an hour. If this idiotic idea actually happened, then your standard tory line of 'colored people take muh job' would actually happen. You are so ignorant that you don't even know what you are cheering for.
    I'll refer you to my comment #105...

    Broadly, we're good at services (finance, legal, R&D, creativity, IT etc etc) and they're good at manufacturing (look at your PC and mobile phone etc) - that's why we should trade. We'll have a bigger market for our services (earn more) and we'll have cheaper manufactured goods (spend less). Their economy and ours don't really overlap (obviously there're some) i.e direct competition is minimum, so fear of them taking our job is minimal.
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    China want a trade deal, New Zealand want to work and back us, Australia is happy to plan a future of trading with us, Canada has warmly welcomed talks for a trade deal, the day after brexit there were calls from South Korea pressing for us to instantly enter talks. The USA have expressed their commitment to getting a trade deal with us, we've just entered talks with India, this is huge amazing stuff. The U.K. Is seen as such a great country around the world but yet we are/were belittled by the EU, when they see the stakes on the table they will realize they pushed us too far. I can't wait till Article 50 is envoked so we can formally Negociate with our long time friends.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    China want a trade deal, New Zealand want to work and back us, Australia is happy to plan a future of trading with us, Canada has warmly welcomed talks for a trade deal, the day after brexit there were calls from South Korea pressing for us to instantly enter talks. The USA have expressed their commitment to getting a trade deal with us, we've just entered talks with India, this is huge amazing stuff. The U.K. Is seen as such a great country around the world but yet we are/were belittled by the EU, when they see the stakes on the table they will realize they pushed us too far. I can't wait till Article 50 is envoked so we can formally Negociate with our long time friends.
    I don't think we should invoke Article 50, until we completed our trade negotiation with the likes of US, China etc .... i.e. have some place to freely trade before we leave. Actually, joking aside, can we really do that?
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    China want a trade deal, New Zealand want to work and back us, Australia is happy to plan a future of trading with us, Canada has warmly welcomed talks for a trade deal, the day after brexit there were calls from South Korea pressing for us to instantly enter talks. The USA have expressed their commitment to getting a trade deal with us, we've just entered talks with India, this is huge amazing stuff. The U.K. Is seen as such a great country around the world but yet we are/were belittled by the EU, when they see the stakes on the table they will realize they pushed us too far. I can't wait till Article 50 is envoked so we can formally Negociate with our long time friends.
    It really bemuses me when people write stuff like this.

    The point is not whether the UK will make deals with other countries. Of course it will, and no one said otherwise (who is partly qualified at least).

    The whole point is the quality of the trade deals that the UK will be able to secure. It may be a 'great' country to you, and around the world indeed, but its bargaining powers pales significantly to that of the EU. Why? Because the EU, collectively, is much, much, much larger, has much more population and it would be suicide for any country not to trade with it.

    The UK, on the other hand, whilst still powerful, is not exactly the end all be all like the EU, and securing highly beneficial trade deals is not just difficult, but very much unlikely.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    It really bemuses me when people write stuff like this.

    The point is not whether the UK will make deals with other countries. Of course it will, and no one said otherwise (who is partly qualified at least).

    The whole point is the quality of the trade deals that the UK will be able to secure. It may be a 'great' country to you, and around the world indeed, but its bargaining powers pales significantly to that of the EU. Why? Because the EU, collectively, is much, much, much larger, has much more population and it would be suicide for any country not to trade with it.

    The UK, on the other hand, whilst still powerful, is not exactly the end all be all like the EU, and securing highly beneficial trade deals is not just difficult, but very much unlikely.
    Switzerland seems to be doing pretty well (one of the richest per capita in the world), free trade with EU, China etc - they're not bigger than us.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    China want a trade deal, New Zealand want to work and back us, Australia is happy to plan a future of trading with us, Canada has warmly welcomed talks for a trade deal, the day after brexit there were calls from South Korea pressing for us to instantly enter talks. The USA have expressed their commitment to getting a trade deal with us, we've just entered talks with India, this is huge amazing stuff. The U.K. Is seen as such a great country around the world but yet we are/were belittled by the EU, when they see the stakes on the table they will realize they pushed us too far. I can't wait till Article 50 is envoked so we can formally Negociate with our long time friends.
    Want is different from have. Trade deals can take many years. A bad trade deal is worse than no trade deal at all. That's why they are complex and detailed negotiations. Talks can go on for years and then it takes years more to see if anything comes from them. Its neither huge or amazing until something actually comes of anything. You have said anything substantive.

    The UK is seen as what it is a potential trading partner of 64m people. I wouldnt put it in the realms of great or significant clout. Trade deals are only any good when they are mutually beneficial. I would be more bothered that we negotiate good terms with our existing trade partners before getting excited about deals that dont exist.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Because the EU, collectively, is much, much, much larger, has much more population and it would be suicide for any country not to trade with it.
    Everyone trades with the EU. However, it has not developed many trade deals, precisely because it has so many participants, with so many vested interests complicating such deals, and is so slow moving.
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    It really bemuses me when people write stuff like this.

    The point is not whether the UK will make deals with other countries. Of course it will, and no one said otherwise (who is partly qualified at least).

    The whole point is the quality of the trade deals that the UK will be able to secure. It may be a 'great' country to you, and around the world indeed, but its bargaining powers pales significantly to that of the EU. Why? Because the EU, collectively, is much, much, much larger, has much more population and it would be suicide for any country not to trade with it.

    The UK, on the other hand, whilst still powerful, is not exactly the end all be all like the EU, and securing highly beneficial trade deals is not just difficult, but very much unlikely.
    I can't think of anyone in the brexit debate who has called for us to cease trade with the EU, everyone called for a cease in political control, the EU is our largest market (Germany in particular) and the free movement of Labour has made us internationally competitive. We have stronger relations with most countries than the EU does, we have stronger ties to EU countries than the EU itself does. The Single market is important but when you can't expand your market because the unelected bureaucrats don't know how to negociate something needs to change. They haven't helped emerging markets which has led to a huge loss in worldwide influence, if the EU had made a trade deal with China in 2007 we'd have a huge influence in what they do. Not to mention the fact that if we were allowed to impose tariffs we could've saved our steel industry. The EU is seen as a joke by the USA, by non-EU European countries, by China, by Asia and by the Middle East, and increasingly by EU countries. When global investment and trade slowed down in 2008 what did the EU do? They Put UP interest rates 😂 Even a GCSE Economics student knows how pathetic that is, the repercussions of that decision still haunt the economy today. But I agree that we need free trade and possibly free movement of Labour with the EU, I don't know anyone who'd say we shouldn't have free trade.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    if the EU had made a trade deal with China in 2007 we'd have a huge influence in what they do. Not to mention the fact that if we were allowed to impose tariffs we could've saved our steel industry. The EU is seen as a joke by the USA, by non-EU European countries, by China, by Asia and by the Middle East, and increasingly by EU countries.
    When we activate article 50 we start the clock ticking and according to the EU that means going from member to third country status.

    We are unlikely to have a huge influence on China.

    Tariffs wouldnt have saved the steel industry. The main problemisnt Chiense steel ist pensions.

    The EU is not a joke its an easy way to tap into a market of 450m people.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    When we activate article 50 we start the clock ticking and according to the EU that means going from member to third country status.

    We are unlikely to have a huge influence on China.

    Tariffs wouldnt have saved the steel industry. The main problemisnt Chiense steel ist pensions.

    The EU is not a joke its an easy way to tap into a market of 450m people.
    Maybe we shouldn't activate it .. until we negotiate trade deals with other countries!
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    When we activate article 50 we start the clock ticking and according to the EU that means going from member to third country status.

    We are unlikely to have a huge influence on China.

    Tariffs wouldnt have saved the steel industry. The main problemisnt Chiense steel ist pensions.

    The EU is not a joke its an easy way to tap into a market of 450m people.
    I wouldn't say third country, that'd be like Russia, we'd be like a second country like Switzerland.

    We could've, not anymore though.

    Pensions is one of the problems that's arisen because of the Chinese steel industry which has just made it impossible for other markets to compete. If we had tariffs on Chinese steel, UK steel would still be selling, these companies would be in profit and pensions would be paid!

    The amount of red tape and hassle you have to go through doesn't make it easy. The idea of it and how you present makes you think how could you go wrong… well just ask China or the USA on that one
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    I wouldn't say third country, that'd be like Russia, we'd be like a second country like Switzerland.

    We could've, not anymore though.

    Pensions is one of the problems that's arisen because of the Chinese steel industry which has just made it impossible for other markets to compete. If we had tariffs on Chinese steel, UK steel would still be selling, these companies would be in profit and pensions would be paid!

    The amount of red tape and hassle you have to go through doesn't make it easy. The idea of it and how you present makes you think how could you go wrong… well just ask China or the USA on that one
    Third country is what the Trade commissioner says.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36678222

    We wouldnt be like switzerland unless we negotiated a trade deal and became part of the EEA, which will inbolve pating the EU billions and allowing free movement of people, as Swutzerland is required to do.

    Pensions has arisone as a problem because we are living longer. nothing to do with Chinese steel.

    Thats why they invest and exprort billions of 3s worth of goods and services. Very lol. Thats why a lot of companies locate their Euro HQ's here becayse we are in the single market. Thats why all the Tata steel bids were pilled, because we will be outside.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Third country is what the Trade commissioner says.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36678222

    We wouldnt be like switzerland unless we negotiated a trade deal and became part of the EEA, which will inbolve pating the EU billions and allowing free movement of people, as Swutzerland is required to do.

    Pensions has arisone as a problem because we are living longer. nothing to do with Chinese steel.

    Thats why they invest and exprort billions of 3s worth of goods and services. Very lol. Thats why a lot of companies locate their Euro HQ's here becayse we are in the single market. Thats why all the Tata steel bids were pilled, because we will be outside.

    We'll get there.

    Short-term pain, long-term gains.
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    (Original post by Blimey1000)
    We'll get there.

    Short-term pain, long-term gains.
    Pain yes, but nobody know how much and how long.

    Its a guess whether there will be long term gains.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Pain yes, but nobody know how much and how long.

    Its a guess whether there will be long term gains.
    We'll be fine.

    We "invented" free trade, we're prob one of the most influential country in history and will continue to be (now that we have control back). We have lots going for us.
 
 
 
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