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Government responds to second EU referendum petition Watch

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    I voted remain, I don't agree with a second referendum, the vote has been made, it's up to our elected representatives to do what they're paid to do. However, we all still have the freedom of speech to voice disagreement with what's going on. Ian Hislop summed it up much better than I could

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyOyoeqKfM
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    (Original post by an_atheist)
    But the 17-18 million people who voted leave dont count then? The country voted, the majority said leave. Simple as. Dont like it, leave
    It might be interesting to see how many people would still vote leave given virtually every promise made by the leave campaign was abandoned, some before midday after the vote.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    It might be interesting to see how many people would still vote leave given virtually every promise made by the leave campaign was abandoned, some before midday after the vote.
    Polling published yesterday give it 50-50, and polling the other day suggests more remainers think they made the wrong decision than leavers

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Polling published yesterday give it 50-50, and polling the other day suggests more remainers think they made the wrong decision than leavers

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    Source?
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Source?
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/08...generous-deal/

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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    Rather than the campaign, the petition was set up by a Leave voter before the votes were counted back in May, when it was thought Remain would win. I'm not sure how many people signed it at that point though.

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    It was set up by a leave voter, calling for a re-run if the turnout was what he considered "too low" regardless of what the result was, which is something of a reasonable concern even if I completely disagree with the petition.

    It has very obviously been taken over by remain voters who just want a re-run because they lost, which is not reasonable at all.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    It was set up by a leave voter, calling for a re-run if the turnout was what he considered "too low" regardless of what the result was, which is something of a reasonable concern even if I completely disagree with the petition.

    It has very obviously been taken over by remain voters who just want a re-run because they lost, which is not reasonable at all.
    But 75% turnout. Good GE turnout is what, high 30s/low 40s?
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    (Original post by an_atheist)
    But 75% turnout. Good GE turnout is what, high 30s/low 40s?
    Good GE turnout is in the early 60's


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    (Original post by an_atheist)
    But 75% turnout. Good GE turnout is what, high 30s/low 40s?
    Ummm, GE turnout is about 65%, so turnout was barely higher

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, GE turnout is about 65%, so turnout was barely higher

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    As a side note I think turnout is based on registered voters and if so loads more people registered to vote for the referendum and therefore it would have been a lot more people who voted in the referendum


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    (Original post by paul514)
    As a side note I think turnout is based on registered voters and if so loads more people registered to vote for the referendum and therefore it would have been a lot more people who voted in the referendum


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    30.7m votes in the GE, 66.4% turnout; 33.6m votes of 46.5m, 72.2% turnout for the referendum. Only a quarter of a million more were registered for the referendum.

    It has to be remembered that the "registration" number includes those that have changed address and those that are "registering" to ensure they are registered, even though they already are.

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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    It was set up by a leave voter, calling for a re-run if the turnout was what he considered "too low" regardless of what the result was, which is something of a reasonable concern even if I completely disagree with the petition.

    It has very obviously been taken over by remain voters who just want a re-run because they lost, which is not reasonable at all.
    By the terms of that Leaver's petition, "Too low" was below 75% - actual turnout was 71.6%
    And his Majority target was 60% - actual majority was 52%.

    So why was it reasonable for a Leaver to ask for those stipulations if Leave "lost", but not now in the event of a Leave "win".

    And, by the way, some previous referendums, including the Scottish Devo 1979 referendum, required a 40% majority of the total electorate. That referendum was overturned because despite a string majority it wasn't more than 40% of the electorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...ferendum,_1979

    Bottomline, there should have been similar requirements for this referendum. Especially given the potential significant constitional impact of this advisory (not legally binding) referendum.

    However as there weren't all people can is debate the issue. And democracy allows that debate to occur. And also to potentially push for a 2nd Referendum (or General Election) to approve any final "Leaving" deal once A50 is completed.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    By the terms of that Leaver's petition, "Too low" was below 75% - actual turnout was 71.6%
    And his Majority target was 60% - actual majority was 52%.

    So why was it reasonable for a Leaver to ask for those stipulations if Leave "lost", but not now in the event of a Leave "win".

    And, by the way, some previous referendums, including the Scottish Devo 1979 referendum, required a 40% majority of the total electorate. That referendum was overturned because despite a string majority it wasn't more than 40% of the electorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...ferendum,_1979

    Bottomline, there should have been similar requirements for this referendum. Especially given the potential significant constitional impact of this advisory (not legally binding) referendum.

    However as there weren't all people can is debate the issue. And democracy allows that debate to occur. And also to potentially push for a 2nd Referendum (or General Election) to approve any final "Leaving" deal once A50 is completed.
    Do you believe the Welsh Assembly should exist?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Do you believe the Welsh Assembly should exist?

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    I do think referendums leading to constitutional change should be more emphatic.

    I don't know enough about Welsh politics but:

    1979 : 20.3 Yes : 79.8 No, on a 59% turnout = that's an emphatic No
    1997 : 50.3 Yes : 49.7 No, on a 50% turnout = not a convincing Yes
    2011 : 63.5 Yes : 36.5 No, on a 36% turnout = a convincing Yes, would be interested to know why turnout was low.

    So short answer is Yes.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    I do think referendums leading to constitutional change should be more emphatic.

    I don't know enough about Welsh politics but:

    1979 : 20.3 Yes : 79.8 No, on a 59% turnout = that's an emphatic No
    1997 : 50.3 Yes : 49.7 No, on a 50% turnout = not a convincing Yes
    2011 : 63.5 Yes : 36.5 No, on a 36% turnout = a convincing Yes, would be interested to know why turnout was low.

    So short answer is Yes.
    So despite only about one in 4 welsh people voting for the welsh assembly it should exist?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So despite only about one in 4 welsh people voting for the welsh assembly it should exist?

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    The trend is clear. The support was >60%. So yep. But I agree the implication of the low turnout does weaken it. Any thoughts on why it was low?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    The trend is clear. The support was >60%. So yep. But I agree the implication of the low turnout does weaken it. Any thoughts on why it was low?
    The referendum that established the welsh assembly only had a quarter of the Welsh supporting the welsh assembly. Stop flip flopping: should it have been established or not?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The referendum that established the welsh assembly only had a quarter of the Welsh supporting the welsh assembly. Stop flip flopping: should it have been established or not?

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    1997 was not enough, no.

    They should have had further Referendum a few years later.

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    (Original post by jneill)
    1997 was not enough, no.

    They should have had further Referendum a few years later.

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    I think waiting a few years will be a little late to be keeping the UK in the EU. I also doubt many people are going to be willing to pay for these neverendums

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think waiting a few years will be a little late to be keeping the UK in the EU. I also doubt many people are going to be willing to pay for these neverendums

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    So on the EU, as I've said many times, a Referendum or GE should be held before A50 times out with whatever deal is ultimately negotiated.

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