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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Have you read the whole surah? Do you even know what that's talking about??? Lmao i've had enough of arguing with people who've never once sat down and read the quran properly rather than pulling up stuff they find online... can't be bothered anymore.
    Do you think the terrorists bother to read this verse in context?


    Don't you think it's dangerous to keep that quote (and others) in the Quran and at the same time say that the book is timeless and perfect?

    Imagine this speech by a radical preacher trying to convince someone to commit a terrorist attack: "Look it's in the Qu'ran. See what Mohamed said about infidels before his first victory: 'I will cast terror etc.' Now, it's your turn, follow the guidance of Mohamed. etc."...
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    Islam is the ideology responsible for far more attacks than any other, a phenomenal amount more. To learn what's making Islam different from every other religion on Earth you must compare it to the others. When an objective thinking looks at Islamic scripture, they see stories of genocide, calls to war and countless other atrocities all described within. One such person has stated that the total percentage of the Qu'ran which contains questionable material is 80%. It comes as no surprise then that Islam is causing terrorist attacks on a daily basis.

    The version of Islam recorded in the Qu'ran is Mohammad's (pbuh) Islam. Thankfully, most Muslims alive today don't follow it. Instead they follow their own, much more peaceful interpretations of Islamic scripture. Those people are ok, but the one's who follow Mohammad's (pbuh) Islam are severely messed up in the head. Both the peaceful versions and the original are versions of Islam. So yes, we are correct in saying Islam is to blame. Believing in Allah isn't the same as Islam IMO. Islam involves jihad and has been the cause of innumerable genocides because of it's violent scripture. A belief in Allah is something which people can have without being Jihadist idiots. So, Islam is the one causing the terrorist attacks, while believing in Allah peacefully (let's call it Allahism) is not. Most Muslims are "Allahists" so there's no reason for them to be offended by criticisms of Islam.
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    (Original post by chelseafc141)
    @Karosan
    The verse you are alluding to came at a time when Muhammad(pbuh) and the Muslims were in a specific battle. "Those who have disbelieved" was not referring to all non Muslims but those who were persecuting the Muslims and who were in a war with them.
    On top of that how can you say "you can't put that into context". Can you not accept that people have lives to live and have better things to do than argue with you and respond to quotes you have completely taken out of context. Not every single Muslim can put these quotes into context because not every single Muslim has studied quranic sciences and interpretations. Your previous quote was answered yet all you seem to be able to do is take more quotes out of context. Don't you understand that after a while people can no longer be bothered to answer to you.
    The verse after 8:12 says

    8:13

    That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.This is a direct reference to those who do not believe in Allah it does not say anywhere in this that this is not acceptable to do to non believers who are not at war with Muslims or persecuting them.

    8:14

    "That [is yours], so taste it." And indeed for the disbelievers is the punishment of the Fire

    "Disbelievers" means anyone who does not believe in Allah it does not say "the disbelievers who attack believers". The words describe their enemies as "disbelievers" not as enemies of Islam or persecutors.
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    (Original post by Sara_t)
    Yeh because instead of posting a short quote how about who post the entire passage with the quote included?? More often than not it isn't implying what you think. I said I wouldn't bother arguing because 99% of the time it's futile but i'll give an example. The 'kill them where you find them' in context of the whole surah is talking about a very specific battle and even then, if you continue reading, Muhammad (pbuh) is told to forgive the wrongdoers if they have realised the consequence of their bad actions. And no by bad I don't mean being a disbeliever, the Muslims were forced out of their homelands and persecuted for their beliefs by these people.
    well 'context' and 'interpretation of' are very subject things - i dont get involved in discussing the theology and scriptural reference anymore - if you really want you cna look back at past posts to see when i did. i can comment however on the historical aspect that runs alongside quranic interpretation - seeing as you state here muslims were persecuted ( that again is purely conjecture seeings as we dont really know if it was the arab pagans or mohammed who started the wars. islamic history though documents many bloody battles with attrocities on both sides and ultimatly we know the islamic army effectively drove the pagans out of their homes in mecca and medina and colonised - much in the same was as they did in rest of middle east, africa and then parts of asia.
    so from that perspective alone, its difficult to agree with your view that its ok that 'they were violent because they were persecuted' - the highly islamic caliphates post mohammed were doing the persecuting and were also highly violent - as was pretty much every later islamic sultans, Emirs and emporerers than continued islamic wars of colonialism until their defeat by the europeans - if islam was to be a purely peaceful influence, then muslims have ignored this fact for 1400 years
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    @Peroxidation
    You said "Islam is the ideology responsible for far more attacks than any other, a phenomenal amount more." No it is not. The only reason you believe that is because attacks by Islamist extremists are the most widely reported by the media. Islamist extremists constitute just 0.7% of all terrorist attacks in Europe. So no, it is not the "ideology responsible for more attacks than any other", let alone "a phenomenal amount more"
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    If these quotes are in context why use such words if you are describing supposed oppressors by saying they are "disbelievers", why not say enemies of followers who have declared war on Islam?
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    (Original post by chelseafc141)
    @Peroxidation
    You said "Islam is the ideology responsible for far more attacks than any other, a phenomenal amount more." No it is not. The only reason you believe that is because attacks by Islamist extremists are the most widely reported by the media. Islamist extremists constitute just 0.7% of all terrorist attacks in Europe. So no, it is not the "ideology responsible for more attacks than any other", let alone "a phenomenal amount more"
    0.7% of all terror attacks? What world are you on? Give me your source.
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    (Original post by Karosan)
    The verse after 8:12 says

    8:13

    That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.This is a direct reference to those who do not believe in Allah it does not say anywhere in this that this is not acceptable to do to non believers who are not at war with Muslims or persecuting them.

    8:14

    "That [is yours], so taste it." And indeed for the disbelievers is the punishment of the Fire

    "Disbelievers" means anyone who does not believe in Allah it does not say "the disbelievers who attack believers". The words describe their enemies as "disbelievers" not as enemies of Islam or persecutors.
    Again you are completely misinterpreting it. "Because they opposed Allah and his messenger" was because they actively wanted to destroy Islam through persecution of the Muslims.
    You need to understand that a person, especially one such as you is completely ignorant of Islamic history and quranic sciences, cannot interpret the Quran by themselves without spending years studying.
    There is a whole science around quranic interpretation and you are completely uneducated in it so you're interpretation is null and void.
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    (Original post by Karosan)
    0.7% of all terror attacks? What world are you on? Give me your source.
    http://www.counterfire.org/news/1759...acks-in-europe

    What do you mean what world are you on. Did you have statistics before you posted what you did? No. You just jumped to conclusions because of what you see in the media. Most terrorist attacks are unreported
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    (Original post by chelseafc141)
    http://www.counterfire.org/news/1759...acks-in-europe

    What do you mean what world are you on. Did you have statistics before you posted what you did? No. You just jumped to conclusions because of what you see in the media. Most terrorist attacks are unreported
    The source is Counterfire? Left-wing ********s destroying the world with garbage is not a credible source. These people are just as responsible as the Islamists.
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    According to the FBI/CIA , 94% of terror attacks are commited by non muslims in 30 year period
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    (Original post by TSR Mustafa)
    According to the FBI/CIA , 94% of terror attacks are commited by non muslims in 30 year period
    seeing as muslims form less than 1 per cent of usa population, thats a high incidence
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    The source is Counterfire? Left-wing ********s destroying the world with garbage is not a credible source. These people are just as responsible as the Islamists.
    The source isn't counterfire, it was simply reported by them. The source is Europol, which is a credible a source as you will find.
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    dozyrosie
    If you need further proof
    https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    seeing as muslims form less than 1 per cent of usa population, thats a high incidence
    Jewish terrorism makes up the same % , incidence is high but doesn't change the fact they make up a small proportion of attacks.
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    your europol report , which i assume you havent read, states spanish seperatism as the biggest terrorist incident group, and religious inspired terrorism ( all of which is islamic btw) is second. Rightwing terrorism is third in 2014. id suggest 2015 would see islamic terrorism overtake the sepratists tho. so what was your point?
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    (Original post by TSR Mustafa)
    Jewish terrorism makes up the same % , incidence is high but doesn't change the fact they make up a small proportion of attacks.
    1% of muslims causing 6% of attacks is a massive differential. in europe islamic terrosim was classed 2nd only to spanish seperatists as biggest culprits of terrorism in 2014. islamists have a high incidence of involment well above their comparative numbers in the west. and id say they account for 99.999% of terrorism in middle east too. its abit ignorant to sit there and suggest islamic world doesnt have a problem with terrrorism to deal with. its essentially become what its famous for now.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Yes, it is an irony which is known as the "paradox of tolerance".

    "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them" - Karl Popper
    People here are being intolerant towards a quarter of the world who call themselves Muslims, instead of the minority of extremists.

    The same people are making it out as if we are at threat of extinction. The tolerant are not close to being destroyed. It is such a weak position to take to give in now and sacrifice the autonomous right of 99.9% of Muslims who are peaceful.

    How can you possibly claim the moral high ground and claim that you are being tolerant?!
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    (Original post by the bear)
    groups like the Front National will be offering their own solutions.
    Orban and Hungary have having a better solution. They were right when not allowing the uneducated, stone age refugees into the country. Also ignoring merkels quotas.
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    Muslim society might need to start educating the young against this radicalisation, but its unfair to put the blame on them. I don't like it when people say its Islam's fault, cause it draws in people who have done no wrong into the conflict and puts the blame on them. We cannot just rush to this "Islam is to blame" conclusion when we have so many anomalies in the form of the decent muslim people who we live and work alongside, people who had no actual connection to the event other than praying the same way to the offender. Its just mass generalisation which creates more hate. Maybe if we stopped distancing ourselves from each other and creating factions of good religion and bad religion then we can actually stop these attacks from become a culture - or maybe im just an optimistic little biyatch - cause working together is like delivering your heart to the devil these days.
 
 
 
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