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V1006 – Hunting Act Repeal Bill 2016 Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should this bill be passed into law?
    As many are of the opinion, Aye
    45.83%
    On the contrary, No
    43.75%
    Abstain
    10.42%

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    (Original post by Aph)
    That powerful government whip

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    (Original post by Airmed)
    No, actually. I have my own mind, thank you very much, I can think for myself.
    Disappointing though the decision is, it's not actually a government bill.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Okay, I thought you voted against last time so I just assumed...
    As Ray has pointed out, not a gov bill. I don't like whipping, as you know.

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Disappointing though the decision is, it's not actually a government bill.
    :hat2:
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    One Aye has been changed to a No for seat 22 (McRite).
    RayApparently is this a sign of Labour being illiberal again in their whipping?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    RayApparently is this a sign of Labour being illiberal again in their whipping?
    Do you need directions to the Liberal Party HQ?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Do you need directions to the Liberal Party HQ?
    I'll take that as a yes, and I try to avoid dealing with Liberals en masse, smokey rooms are much nicer.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I'll take that as a yes, and I try to avoid dealing with Liberals en masse, smokey rooms are much nicer.
    Only messing with you JD, enjoy the smokey, leather coated rooms I imagine Tories congregate in.

    And I am no longer the CW of the TSR Labour Party. That role has since been passed on.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Do you need directions to the Liberal Party HQ?
    PRSOM
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Only messing with you JD, enjoy the smokey, leather coated rooms I imagine Tories congregate in.

    And I am no longer the CW of the TSR Labour Party. That role has since been passed on.
    I would be concerned if the CW acts independently on non party political matters.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I would be concerned if the CW acts independently on non party political matters.
    Independently? Certainly not. Bother someone else for a change? Definitely. :laugh:
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    (Original post by Aph)
    That powerful government whip

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    It's a PMB you colossal moron.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Tbf, you still haven't provided us with a sensible reason why this bill should pass.
    Could say the same about almost everything that comes out of your mouth

    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Wow, the vote is incredibly marginal :O
    What were you saying a week ago again?

    (Original post by Aph)
    No I'm saying i don't know of any studied done into:
    A) pain after cervical dislocation in animals.
    B) the method of kill in fox hunting by the dogs.

    Provide these and I will consider changing my vote but I'm still not sure telling people to enjoy being cruel is a good idea.
    Ummm, you still don't seem to be grasping the concept that either they don't feel pain ever, or they don't feel pain. But while looking for the former (without having to resort to study of wolves, which is far easier) I did come across numerous pieces. The first is from the Committee on Pain and Distress in Laboratory Animals who state:

    "
    Cervical dislocation is commonly used to euthanatize small laboratory animals (e.g., poultry, mice, and immature rats and rabbits). It causes almost immediate loss of consciousness because of cerebral shock, and all voluntary motor and sensory functions cease because of damage to the spinal cord. This method can cause considerable involuntary muscle activity. However, there is no evidence that animals feel pain, if it is performed correctly. The technique consists of a separation of the skull and brain from the spinal cord by anteriorly directed pressure applied to the base of the skull. "

    It is even approved on conscious animals for those that have demonstrated proficiency in the method

    With limited resources on dogs we get that against small targets the dog focuses on the neck, after all it's the easiest kill. It is also the reason why domestic dogs shake small toys, it is their instinct to do this to small prey because it kills them quickly "usually by breaking the neck or spine "

    And to any who want to think that hunting produces unnecessary harm, it might be worth considering that the Hunting Act did not increase the population density
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Could say the same about almost everything that comes out of your mouth



    What were you saying a week ago again?



    Ummm, you still don't seem to be grasping the concept that either they don't feel pain ever, or they don't feel pain. But while looking for the former (without having to resort to study of wolves, which is far easier) I did come across numerous pieces. The first is from the Committee on Pain and Distress in Laboratory Animals who state:

    "
    Cervical dislocation is commonly used to euthanatize small laboratory animals (e.g., poultry, mice, and immature rats and rabbits). It causes almost immediate loss of consciousness because of cerebral shock, and all voluntary motor and sensory functions cease because of damage to the spinal cord. This method can cause considerable involuntary muscle activity. However, there is no evidence that animals feel pain, if it is performed correctly. The technique consists of a separation of the skull and brain from the spinal cord by anteriorly directed pressure applied to the base of the skull. "

    It is even approved on conscious animals for those that have demonstrated proficiency in the method

    With limited resources on dogs we get that against small targets the dog focuses on the neck, after all it's the easiest kill. It is also the reason why domestic dogs shake small toys, it is their instinct to do this to small prey because it kills them quickly "usually by breaking the neck or spine "

    And to any who want to think that hunting produces unnecessary harm, it might be worth considering that the Hunting Act did not increase the population density
    Your graphic descriptions of animals dying is straying even further away from what this bill is about.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Your graphic descriptions of animals dying is straying even further away from what this bill is about.
    And you just descended to a whole new level of stupid, it is EXACTLY what the bill is about (kinda) and was specifically asked for. I also weep for humanity if that is considered graphic.
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    After speaking with Jammy Duel a little, he's convinced me to change my vote.

    Saracen's Fez can my vote please be changed from Abstain to Aye?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    After speaking with Jammy Duel a little, he's convinced me to change my vote.

    Saracen's Fez can my vote please be changed from Abstain to Aye?
    And for the record, the argument used has been put forwards in this and/or the debate thread, I merely directed to the relevant part. And that is true of all my talks in smoke filled rooms on this matter.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    After speaking with Jammy Duel a little, he's convinced me to change my vote.

    Saracen's Fez can my vote please be changed from Abstain to Aye?
    One Abstention has been changed to an Aye.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    One Abstention has been changed to an Aye.
    Mr Speaker, I might be mistaken but I believe there are 4 MPs (+andy) yet to cast a vote (Imperion, the seat Joe is proxying, the seat S is proxying, and Adam). Given there is also one vacant seat (or two if at the time of posting andy has formally lost his) this means there is at least one double vote. Would you be able to confirm I'm not missing something and advise on the current standings, or at this late stage are you unwilling to do so before results tomorrow?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Mr Speaker, I might be mistaken but I believe there are 4 MPs (+andy) yet to cast a vote (Imperion, the seat Joe is proxying, the seat S is proxying, and Adam). Given there is also one vacant seat (or two if at the time of posting andy has formally lost his) this means there is at least one double vote. Would you be able to confirm I'm not missing something and advise on the current standings, or at this late stage are you unwilling to do so before results tomorrow?

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    The double vote I can immediately spot is in seat 48 (Kyx for LTG). Given LTG is the permanent MP his vote stands. The net result is –1 No.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    The double vote I can immediately spot is in seat 48 (Kyx for LTG). Given LTG is the permanent MP his vote stands. The net result is –1 No.
    Thank you

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, you still don't seem to be grasping the concept that either they don't feel pain ever, or they don't feel pain. But while looking for the former (without having to resort to study of wolves, which is far easier) I did come across numerous pieces. The first is from the Committee on Pain and Distress in Laboratory Animals who state:

    "
    Cervical dislocation is commonly used to euthanatize small laboratory animals (e.g., poultry, mice, and immature rats and rabbits). It causes almost immediate loss of consciousness because of cerebral shock, and all voluntary motor and sensory functions cease because of damage to the spinal cord. This method can cause considerable involuntary muscle activity. However, there is no evidence that animals feel pain, if it is performed correctly. The technique consists of a separation of the skull and brain from the spinal cord by anteriorly directed pressure applied to the base of the skull. "

    It is even approved on conscious animals for those that have demonstrated proficiency in the method
    okay, I will accept this and assume that such a death is painless if done correctly. I am yet to be convinced that the dog is a skilled decapitator.

    With limited resources on dogs we get that against small targets the dog focuses on the neck, after all it's the easiest kill. It is also the reason why domestic dogs shake small toys, it is their instinct to do this to small prey because it kills them quickly "usually by breaking the neck or spine "
    Maybe I'm being blind but I couldn't see that in the first article. It was somewhat interesting but I never saw anything about the killing of small only large animals.
    And a quick death isn't instant so there could still be fear and pain for a brief moment. Although I do accept that no kill method will be 100% perfect.
    And to any who want to think that hunting produces unnecessary harm, it might be worth considering that the Hunting Act did not increase the population density
    i don't think anyone belived that.

    I thank you for this and will consider it. My main objections are still teaching people to be cruel or to make people belive that we are superior so I don't think I could vote for this but I might abstain. My other concern is that this would allow hunting of dear with hounds too. And that would be far worse than the current dear cull in terms of cruelty.
 
 
 
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