Muslim and starting to doubt my religion

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    (Original post by Khizer.M)

    In my opinion some of them rules stated in the quran will never possibly be used in my lifetime and i doubt in yours.

    Well, a lot of Muslims including those on TSR would disagree with you.

    If that was even true then it make parts of the Qu'ran completely pointless.
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    (Original post by Paniniception)
    But loads of scholars are wahabbis from Saudi who are misogynistic, even their female clerics are! I'm Shia Muslim and we are a bit different
    How is that?

    You allow women to get married for the purpose of sex, so they can get divorced straight after?
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Of course a forced marriage is not allowed, it's funny that people that argue about 'child marriages being acceptable' in islam fail to see that contradictory point. ☕️🐸
    How can a 6 or 9 years old willingly give consent to marriage? Does she even know what's going on?
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    You should seek deeper knowledge alongside what I have advised before because your knowledge seems limited atm with all due respect. You appear to understand some things and not others which would indicate that you haven't looked into them much e.g. what women get in Jannah, why some laws are there etc. Furthermore, if you claim that religions were made by people to control societies, you have to delve into the intentions of the people who founded these religions; rather I find this a cop out by people who want a lazy way of disregarding religion. Indeed it might be true that people further down the line have manipulated people using religion (e.g. later kings), but at the start of each religion, I doubt you'd find evidence for this to be the case for the founding generations. I think your research is limited and your thoughts based therefrom even more so, therefore please reread my other advice.
    All the points I made in OP, I have done lots of background research on them, what's disheartening is everything I said is what the majority of Muslim scholars agree on. People say you should make sacrifices for your religion. But is it always women that have to make majority of the huge sacrifices? How does that make Islam equal? It seems the only value a woman is given in Islam is as a mother.

    There are so many contradictions. On one hand "there's no compulsion in religion". But on the other hand, if you decide to leave the religion you should be executed. This is supported in the hadiths and Quran. How is that a just and merciful God?

    The other thing is that when I'm down I enjoy listening to music, it makes me happy, thoughtful, eases stress or reflective. But music apparently is also forbidden. I understand filthy or vulgar music being banned but apparently music is haraam even instruments. So now when I listen to music I just feel guilty for enjoying it. It seems everything enjoyable is not allowed. What kinda life is that? There may be a heaven and hell. But don't forget we only live this earthly life once and no one really knows what's there after death. No one can say for certain what's coming next. I do believe we as humans need guidelines and rules, it's a good thing but why can't we enjoy our life on Earth without feeling guilty and having so many restrictions placed upon us, as long as we're being sensible what harm will it do. I admit I still need to seek deeper knowledge on this topic but from what I've read,the vast majority of scholars believe is that it is prohibited particularly songs that make you want to dance.

    Even dr.nakir, TSR saviour agrees that sex slaves are permissible, I just watchec his video on YouTube. Don't you consider that rape? Why would God allow such a thing? How is that peaceful? Why are there so many contradictions, we can't even agree on a date for Eid.

    How many people blindly follow a religion they don't even understand. How many followers in the subcontinent even understand Arabic? They following what they've been told by imams and their parents. They couldn't translate a line of the Quran apart from maybe the kalima if you asked them. They reciting and reciting something in Arabic and they don't even know what is being said.

    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male. Is that not sexist?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    All the points I made in OP, I have done lots of background research on them, what's disheartening is everything I said is what the majority of Muslim scholars agree on. People say you should make sacrifices for your religion. But is it always women that have to make majority of the huge sacrifices? How does that make Islam equal? It seems the only value a woman is given in Islam is as a mother.

    There are so many contradictions. On one hand "there's no compulsion in religion". But on the other hand, if you decide to leave the religion you should be executed. This is supported in the hadiths and Quran. How is that a just and merciful God?

    The other thing is that when I'm down I enjoy listening to music, it makes me happy, thoughtful, eases stress or reflective. But music apparently is also forbidden. I understand filthy or vulgar music being banned but apparently music is haraam even instruments. So now when I listen to music I just feel guilty for enjoying it. It seems everything enjoyable is not allowed. What kinda life is that? There may be a heaven and hell. But don't forget we only live this earthly life once and no one really knows what's there after death. No one can say for certain what's coming next. I do believe we as humans need guidelines and rules, it's a good thing but why can't we enjoy our life on Earth without feeling guilty and having so many restrictions placed upon us, as long as we're being sensible what harm will it do. I admit I still need to seek deeper knowledge on this topic but from what I've read,the vast majority of scholars believe is that it is prohibited particularly songs that make you want to dance.

    Even dr.nakir, TSR saviour agrees that sex slaves are permissible, I just watchec his video on YouTube. Don't you consider that rape? Why would God allow such a thing? How is that peaceful? Why are there so many contradictions, we can't even agree on a date for Eid.

    How many people blindly follow a religion they don't even understand. How many followers in the subcontinent even understand Arabic? They following what they've been told by imams and their parents. They couldn't translate a line of the Quran apart from maybe the kalima if you asked them. They reciting and reciting something in Arabic and they don't even know what is being said.

    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male. Is that not sexist?
    Music is fine to listen to.You shouldnt feel guilty about it.Thats what religion does it promises you that you can have all that you desire after your dead.Of course there is no guarantee that you'll get it but it stops people from demanding it in this life. Religion is basically just a method of control.Take sex for example.The christian and Islamic religion are dangerously obsessed with sex.But its not an obsession in a good healthy way,its like an anorexic with food.They cant stop thinking about it and thats unhealthy.If you want to grow your religion then you want to encourage people to have sex because the children will most likely be muslim as well.But you cant just have people having sex with everyone because of STDs and you cant have homosexuals because they wont procreate.So you say that sex should be between a man and a woman and outlaw homosexuality.You say that men should save sex until marriage but dont worry becauase when you die you'll get 77 virgins.How convienient! Of course by the time anyone realises the deception it doesnt matter because you're all dead.
    #10

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    All the points I made in OP, I have done lots of background research on them, what's disheartening is everything I said is what the majority of Muslim scholars agree on. People say you should make sacrifices for your religion. But is it always women that have to make majority of the huge sacrifices? How does that make Islam equal? It seems the only value a woman is given in Islam is as a mother.

    There are so many contradictions. On one hand "there's no compulsion in religion". But on the other hand, if you decide to leave the religion you should be executed. This is supported in the hadiths and Quran. How is that a just and merciful God?

    The other thing is that when I'm down I enjoy listening to music, it makes me happy, thoughtful, eases stress or reflective. But music apparently is also forbidden. I understand filthy or vulgar music being banned but apparently music is haraam even instruments. So now when I listen to music I just feel guilty for enjoying it. It seems everything enjoyable is not allowed. What kinda life is that? There may be a heaven and hell. But don't forget we only live this earthly life once and no one really knows what's there after death. No one can say for certain what's coming next. I do believe we as humans need guidelines and rules, it's a good thing but why can't we enjoy our life on Earth without feeling guilty and having so many restrictions placed upon us, as long as we're being sensible what harm will it do. I admit I still need to seek deeper knowledge on this topic but from what I've read,the vast majority of scholars believe is that it is prohibited particularly songs that make you want to dance.

    Even dr.nakir, TSR saviour agrees that sex slaves are permissible, I just watchec his video on YouTube. Don't you consider that rape? Why would God allow such a thing? How is that peaceful? Why are there so many contradictions, we can't even agree on a date for Eid.

    How many people blindly follow a religion they don't even understand. How many followers in the subcontinent even understand Arabic? They following what they've been told by imams and their parents. They couldn't translate a line of the Quran apart from maybe the kalima if you asked them. They reciting and reciting something in Arabic and they don't even know what is being said.

    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male. Is that not sexist?
    Your emotions doesn't matter, music doesn't matter, sex slaves is not true and it's not rape and it don't matter, what you think is sexism doesn't matter. All that matters is Allah exists, he decides what's right and what's wrong and he commands you to submit to him, do you acknowledge Allah, do you submit to him and do your namaaz, if not then may Allah guide you back to Islam. We can't have weak people in the ummah.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    How can a 6 or 9 years old willingly give consent to marriage? Does she even know what's going on?
    Personally I don't believe in the Hadith that Aisha was 6 years old when she got married due to it's inconsistencies and contradictions (which are A LOT) with other Hadiths, even though it's sahih, I still think it needs to be thoroughly examined.

    I made a thread on it explaining it but the mods had taken it down because of trolls. I could PM it to you if you're interested.
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    @Anonymous #108
    Not the best response bro, there are times to be strong but also times to be subtle.
    She's on the verge of leaving islam so it should be handled with abit more empathy towards her case right?
    Wassalam
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    (Original post by Khizer.M)
    @Anonymous
    You might want to mention which anon you mean (#1, #2, etc.) so it's clear who you're referring to.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, a lot of Muslims including those on TSR would disagree with you.

    If that was even true then it make parts of the Qu'ran completely pointless.
    What i meant was:
    Those rules are valid, for now and forever.
    But the thing is - i am not using them in todays day and age because it says it's permissable for you to take a slave after war - but i don't see any war coming within my lifetime??
    That's what i meant by "those rules will never be used in my life time" and btw they're not compulsory like i have to pray salah 5 x
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    (Original post by Khizer.M)
    What i meant was:
    Those rules are valid, for now and forever.
    But the thing is - i am not using them in todays day and age because it says it's permissable for you to take a slave after war - but i don't see any war coming within my lifetime??
    That's what i meant by "those rules will never be used in my life time" and btw they're not compulsory like i have to pray salah 5 x
    So...if you were a soldier....you would take a slave or it would be ok to take a slave?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Your emotions doesn't matter, music doesn't matter, sex slaves is not true and it's not rape and it don't matter, what you think is sexism doesn't matter. All that matters is Allah exists, he decides what's right and what's wrong and he commands you to submit to him, do you acknowledge Allah, do you submit to him and do your namaaz, if not then may Allah guide you back to Islam. We can't have weak people in the ummah.
    AKA just follow blindly.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    Personally I don't believe in the Hadith that Aisha was 6 years old when she got married due to it's inconsistencies and contradictions (which are A LOT) with other Hadiths, even though it's sahih, I still think it needs to be thoroughly examined.

    I made a thread on it explaining it but the mods had taken it down because of trolls. I could PM it to you if you're interested.
    Ok. She is 9 or 12. It doesn't make a difference.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Ok. She is 9 or 12. It doesn't make a difference.
    No, most evidence points to the fact that she was around her late teens at the least. You obviously didn't research my statement one bit and assumed she was still pre-pubescent to fit your view on this topic of child marriages people keep blabbering about on the internet.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    No, most evidence points to the fact that she was around her late teens at the least.
    Well, that is a first.
    #4

    I like how all the non-muslims/atheists come running to bash islam but when it is about another religion no one cares and can't be bothered even criticising it. I have noticed the muslims don't take on that behaviour thankfully. Shows quite a lot about them.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    No, most evidence points to the fact that she was around her late teens at the least. You obviously didn't research my statement one bit and assumed she was still pre-pubescent to fit your view on this topic of child marriages people keep blabbering about on the internet.
    Maybe, you should talk to your other Muslim mates, because they are the ones who keep on justifying child marriage.

    AKA It is ok to marry someone who hits puberty.

    That is the argument that is used on this thread and it is acceptable for them.

    So, you haven't written anything except confirming that Muslims have no clue about Aisha's age.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I like how all the non-muslims/atheists come running to bash islam but when it is about another religion no one cares and can't be bothered even criticising it. I have noticed the muslims don't take on that behaviour thankfully. Shows quite a lot about them.
    Because Christians are not the ones trying to justify child marriage on this thread or failing to answer the OP's points.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    All the points I made in OP, I have done lots of background research on them, what's disheartening is everything I said is what the majority of Muslim scholars agree on. People say you should make sacrifices for your religion. But is it always women that have to make majority of the huge sacrifices? How does that make Islam equal? It seems the only value a woman is given in Islam is as a mother.
    Islam acknowledges that men and women are different and therefore Allah, out of His wisdom, has allocated specific roles and responsibilities (and therefore different rights) for each gender which best fits with the inherent nature of most men and women. Where you have an issue with 'inequality' is essentially a matter of you assuming men and women are the same in every single way in their most basic nature, therefore any differences in rights, roles and responsibilities you find to be a deviation from this innate equality, but the reality is that our most basic nature we are different.

    I will give a very very simple example:

    On the whole, men tend to be naturally more agressive and stronger than females (obviously there are exceptions, but this is the norm). As a result men are predisposed to assuming more responsibility when it comes to warfare and protection; how are men and women truly 'equal' to start with? The answer is that fundamentally there are innate differences between men and women, and sure there are innate similarities or times when men can exceed in a quality that women are predisposed to be better in, and women can exceed in quality that men are predisposed to be better in, but this is not the norm; one might claim Spartan women are equal to the men for example, but the men are still stronger even if the women have made up for the shortfall in their basic strength.

    There are so many contradictions. On one hand "there's no compulsion in religion". But on the other hand, if you decide to leave the religion you should be executed. This is supported in the hadiths and Quran. How is that a just and merciful God?
    There are no 'contradictions' that cannot be reconciled with understanding. The verse means that one cannot force someone to become Muslim; are you familiar with the comparison between publicised apostasy/rebellion in an Islamic state and treason? In such a case, punishment for treason does not in itself contradict a lack of compulsion in religion. In any case, a person can leave a religious state if they so strongly disagree with the religion - it's what I would do, and I wouldn't care so much that I would have to leave my family behind, not because I don't love them but because truth comes over blood ties and memories.

    The other thing is that when I'm down I enjoy listening to music, it makes me happy, thoughtful, eases stress or reflective. But music apparently is also forbidden. I understand filthy or vulgar music being banned but apparently music is haraam even instruments. So now when I listen to music I just feel guilty for enjoying it. It seems everything enjoyable is not allowed. What kinda life is that? There may be a heaven and hell. But don't forget we only live this earthly life once and no one really knows what's there after death. No one can say for certain what's coming next. I do believe we as humans need guidelines and rules, it's a good thing but why can't we enjoy our life on Earth without feeling guilty and having so many restrictions placed upon us, as long as we're being sensible what harm will it do. I admit I still need to seek deeper knowledge on this topic but from what I've read,the vast majority of scholars believe is that it is prohibited particularly songs that make you want to dance.
    This is a rather emotional objection (rather than one of reason) by you, and I think the vast majority of Muslims have enjoyed music at some point (and perhaps still continue to); however if you really reflect on the matter, its general prohibition makes a lot of sense. Music is generally a distraction which people spend hours listening to - imagine how many years of their lives will have been wasted with music by the time they die? That time could have been spent more productively in acts of ibadah or in better things in the dunya... But let's ignore those who listen to music at the moment, let's focus on those who make it: they waste so much more of their time practicing and learning how to play instruments and songs, and then they distract others. Imagine a person spent their whole time gambling until they had mastered card-counting for example, therefore maximising their chances of winning and minimising their losses. This gambler seldom loses and only ever makes money on most days. He gives the money directly to his friends who know very well where the money came from, but does this make it halal? Obviously not. Similarly a musician spends all their time practicing (thus making negligent use of their time), then they give their music to others for them to enjoy/distract them - does this suddenly make it the music halal to listen to because the listener doesn't waste as much time as the musicians themselves? Obviously not... I can go into why even religious music (with instruments) is prohibited also if you wish, but this is sufficient as a rational explanation for why music is prohibited.

    About the second part, those who believe in Islam and are firm in faith know that there is the hereafter and therefore it does not dishearten them so much that they cannot enjoy the haram of this life; you appear to be wavering in faith at the moment so that is why you are unsure of the rules - I think it is because you are too converned with the dunya at the moment.

    [/quote]Even dr.nakir, TSR saviour agrees that sex slaves are permissible, I just watchec his video on YouTube. Don't you consider that rape? Why would God allow such a thing? How is that peaceful? Why are there so many contradictions, we can't even agree on a date for Eid. [/quote]

    Sex with slaves is permissible (although rape is not). Slaves are prisoners of war in Islam, and I would argue that slaves in Islam 1400 years ago were treated better than prisoners of war over the last 100 years. I have not known modern prisoners of war to be permitted the same quality of clothing and food as their captors, allowed to have spouses, allowed to be incorporated into society, be treated respectfully, allowed to have position of authority even over free people etc; instead modern POWs are given a jumpsuit, cramped cells, lesser quality food (than that of those who have captured them), kept away from society, segregated from the opposite gender, treated as bags of meat and bone instead of as human beings etc. Now I am not saying that slavery in Islam is all rosey, as indeed it can still be difficult upon the enslaved, but I think people just see the word 'slave' and get some social warrior complex and have to try to denounce Islamic slavery as barbaric when I would argue that it isn't as morally and logically bad as they make out - the label of 'slave' is worse than POW; the conditions of a POW are worse than a slave...

    How many people blindly follow a religion they don't even understand. How many followers in the subcontinent even understand Arabic? They following what they've been told by imams and their parents. They couldn't translate a line of the Quran apart from maybe the kalima if you asked them. They reciting and reciting something in Arabic and they don't even know what is being said.
    I am not sure what this has to do with Islam itself and your objections to it - rather that shows a flaw within the people themselves which I agree with you on. People should strive to understand the Quran.

    Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male. Is that not sexist?
    The main reason the Quran highlights that the non-Muslims give the angels female names is because the Quraysh used to say that the angels were the daughters of Allah, yet many people would loath having daughters themselves, and some would bury them alive. This objection is therefore saying that they believe daughters are good enough for God but not for themselves, therefore it is a disgusting shame on them and hypocrisy for believing that.

    Again my advice is to go to basics and understand how the religion itself is truth before you delve into the finer rules, because it appears that you don't have firm foundations, so pushing the walls of a building with weak pillars will only cause the building to collapse on you.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Maybe, you should talk to your other Muslim mates, because they are the ones who keep on justifying child marriage.

    AKA It is ok to marry someone who hits puberty.

    That is the argument that is used on this thread and it is acceptable for them.

    you're right: it is permissible to marry someone once they've reached puberty, but only if there is valid consent between both parties. Without consent it would just be a forced marriage which is universally unacceptable.


    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So, you haven't written anything except confirming that Muslims have no clue about Aisha's age.
    In a sense we are clueless about her age since it really doesn't match with what other hadiths state.

    If you're even bothered, have a look at this article discussing Aisha's age.

    http://www.ilaam.net/articles/ayesha.html
 
 
 
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