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Should trans people be allowed to receive free reassignment surgery on the NHS? Watch

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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
    Don't people continue to kill themselves at astonishingly high rates afterwards?
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
    People kill themselves all the time because they're unable to get decent mental health care.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
    Then explain why people kill themselves even after they've transitioned
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    I dunno, giving blokes tits does seem a little frivolous while others are deprived of mental health care or IVF or diagnostic tests or drugs.
    I'd rather my taxes go to ivf treatment as opposed to gender reassignment surgery
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    "Sex changes are not effective, say researchers"
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...h.mentalhealth
    http://www.cakeworld.info/news/2014-...sayresearchers

    pulls apart that article in the guardian (from 2004!).

    The article is talking about a study that "In the abstract available on the university’s server, no opinion on the effectiveness of sex reassignment surgery is expressed. It is noted that “our searches confirm absence of randomised controlled trials and controlled trials to December 2001, and have identified none since then to the end of June 2004”. "

    Obviously you can't conduct randomised controlled trials on SRS or transitioning - the nature of the treatment means that it would be highly unethical (and obvious to participants) to conduct a study in such a way.

    http://genderanalysis.net/2015/09/pa...ysis-10/Covers the most vocal critic of SRS and transitioning and the most common studies cited (and what they ACTUALLY find)

    (Original post by LibertyMan)
    That's ********. Trans people will never be happy because they are mentally ill, and convincing a schizophrenic that everyone believes they are being hunted by the illuminati isn't going to make them happy either, it will only feed into their illusion.

    Many many trans people regret their sex change. We have a moral obligation to not allow mentally ill people who don't know what they're doing mutilate themselves permanently.
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    As you said yourself, not every trans person will want surgery, which means that there is more than one solution to ease their symptoms.

    Have you not read stories about people who have transitioned yet still commit suicide? Here's a suicide note of someone who began transitioning. You reckon that if she had fully transitioned, she wouldnt have been feeling this way?
    Attachment 569790
    http://genderanalysis.net/2015/07/wa...r-analysis-09/

    Cases of trans people regretting transition are few and far between - and are very often due to the levels of transphobia, bigotry and discrimination encountered by people transitioning or post-transition.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Don't people continue to kill themselves at astonishingly high rates afterwards?
    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Then explain why people kill themselves even after they've transitioned
    • Another study of 50 trans women who received genital surgery found that their physical and mental health was not significantly different from samples of cis women.
    • A 2013 study of 433 trans people in Canada found that 27% of those who hadn’t begun transitioning had attempted suicide in the past year, but this dropped to 1% for those who were finished transitioning.
    • And a 2010 meta-analysis of 28 studies showed that 78% of trans people showed an improvement in psychiatric symptoms after transitioning, with a level of psychological functioning similar to the general population and greater than that of untreated trans people.
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    i was trapped in a woman's body... managed to free myself without NHS assistance
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    (Original post by the bear)
    i was trapped in a woman's body... managed to free myself without NHS assistance
    Do bears have barbed penises?
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Hormones can delay puberty and give the child time to decide. Pre-puberty, suicide rates are lower as the person has not been forced to grow into a body that they do not identify with.
    This causes no long term damage to the person, and normal puberty begins if they choose to stop taking the hormones.
    It gives them time to decide.
    Surgery is not usually, if ever, an option for someone pre-puberty- and the hormones are not transitional, as they have not actually developed the body of their gender.
    I studied this with someone who works for a prominent trans charity, and he was massively in favour of letting children delay their puberty if they strongly believed that they were trans.
    That's interesting, because its the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Do you have any links?

    I think it's entirely normal to go through a questioning phase during puberty when you're just a soup of hormones - I started my periods quite early and so everything was pretty settled by 12/13 ... But then I developed PCOS and now I've naturally got high levels of testosterone and the male hormones, hirsutism, and I did go through a phase of wondering whether I was really meant to be male or female (or lesbian). A few years later and I'm quite content the way I am. But puberty itself was a wild time for me when everything changed... And then kept changing for my body. But it did settle down and I'm grateful for that - so I've got to say I think you should definitely go through puberty before making any huge, life altering decisions. Your body changes, you change, your attitudes change... I'm not sure if any child is ready to deal with that.

    On the other hand you can argue that if a child has always felt that way (before puberty) then maybe it's better off that way... Not sure.. if you're not old enough to give consent to sex I can't see a child being old enough to know what gender they want to be! Difficult

    Anyhoo. Linkappreciated if you've got it ^^
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Opting to not have chemotherapy after a cancer diagnosis is asking for a death sentence. There is no other way to cure cancer.
    That is the most stupid statement i have read so far this year and there is heavy competition.
    you do know a great number of cancers are chemo resistant right? Not to mention i cant blame a single person for not wanting it, it is a truly horrifying treatment that is little different than being pumped full of poison.
    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
    and people literally kill them selves because they like to drink too much, got dumped, got fired, are just miserable, are morons etc. etc. what is your point?
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    the discredited options including the hateful 'conversion therapy ' you mean



    shame that the real healthcare professional don;t agree with you



    all the discredited and disproved treatments you mean , i think you need to do some research before spouting the guff you are spouting



    are you a ' gender critical radical feminist' by any chance ? as that is the discredited male bovine excrement they trot out ...
    Never heard of conversion therapy.

    Healthcare professionals disagree with my acceptance that transition surgery can have a positive impact on a trans-gender person's happiness and that gender-dysphoria can be severely detrimental to the person's happiness?
    And healthcare professionals actually believe that they are not deluded? That they are somehow in fact the gender they identify as?
    They actually don't believe it is a disorder?
    They actually think that a man who thinks they are a woman is completely fine and that there is nothing wrong with them?
    Show me the evidence, I will be very interested to read it!

    What has been discredited? What has been disproved? I am not talking about 'discredited' 'disproved' treatments. What is the point in treating someone with something that has been properly discredited? I am saying alternative treatments to gender re-assignment surgery should be researched and the SJW PC brigade shouldn't fight tooth and nail to block it. Strawmen, strawmen everywhere!

    Nope, not a feminist. But my logic is sound and all you can do is get salty and call it "Bovine excrement". Funny.
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    Here is a very good article people: http://gcnjustin.tumblr.com/post/116...-considered-to

    I know to us who aren't transgender it might seem weird, but you aren't in their shoes, so you don't know how it feels. We are lucky we don't feel like that.

    Should we have it on the NHS? Yes. If the problem isn't sorted, you've all heard about the mental health implications, so I won't go into it.
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    The National Health Service is there for people's health. This includes immediate emergency healthcare for those in accidents or with serious illnesses, but it also includes everything else besides, right down to my anaemia which does not much else other than make me lethargic and my contraceptive to stop my period pains. Waiting lists are a thing for more expensive or specialised treatments and when we're looking at quality of life only we find longer waiting periods - my physiotherapy took almost 9 months to come through.

    Trans* individuals have a health problem, whether or not you consider it to be mental or physical or a combination of both, I leave that to the experts to decide. And there is a treatment that they can have that yes costs money, but it reduces the impact of this health problem, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

    We budget these things. Trans* people having surgery is a different part of the budget to cancer treatments or IVF, and when you think about what the cost of this surgery would pay for elsewhere it isn't much at all, and probably wouldn't save lives significantly (someone posted some figures above). But we can't just look at everything as a cost-benefit analysis - this is someone's life. While we have to look at where we can save money as healthcare is not unlimited for free, we don't cut entire sections of healthcare and deprive entire groups of people the treatment for their health problem because we don't personally agree with it.

    There may be other ways to treat this particular health issue that isn't surgery (some just have hormones and not surgery), but those things will be offered and often tried first, will have shorter waiting lists etc. in the same way we try to have people use contraceptives rather than abortions or giving birth, and we look to change the lifestyle of smokers or drinkers or those who are overweight, we would look to see if anything else can be done but while the evidence suggests that the most effective treatment is there, why are we depriving people of it?

    To the people saying "You can't cure schizophrenia with surgery", no, you can't, at least not to my (I'll admit, not complete) knowledge. But if we found that there was a surgical option that had little negative effects and vastly improved quality of life, you'd be saying "Why are we keeping giving them antipsychotics and dealing with side effects and relapses when that surgery is available?", not "But if they're delusional they should just get over it and take a pill, not expect me to pay for their surgery at the expense of people who have cancer".
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Except that people LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES because they are unable to transition.
    The suicide rate after transitional surgery is also high.

    So thats non-argument.

    minimarshmallow


    What about the people who are depressed because of their body image? (tiny breats, overweight etc). I assume you would support NHS funding for the respective operations as well.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Do bears have barbed penises?
    that is for bear™ to know & you to find out
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    (Original post by TiernanW)
    Here is a very good article people: http://gcnjustin.tumblr.com/post/116...-considered-to

    I know to us who aren't transgender it might seem weird, but you aren't in their shoes, so you don't know how it feels. We are lucky we don't feel like that.

    Should we have it on the NHS? Yes. If the problem isn't sorted, you've all heard about the mental health implications, so I won't go into it.
    I think you've found a bit of a gem among the turds of Tumblr, here. Very reasonable and well-thought out response.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    • Another study of 50 trans women who received genital surgery found that their physical and mental health was not significantly different from samples of cis women.
    • A 2013 study of 433 trans people in Canada found that 27% of those who hadn’t begun transitioning had attempted suicide in the past year, but this dropped to 1% for those who were finished transitioning.
    • And a 2010 meta-analysis of 28 studies showed that 78% of trans people showed an improvement in psychiatric symptoms after transitioning, with a level of psychological functioning similar to the general population and greater than that of untreated trans people.
    This doesn't at all explain why people still commit suicide post transition
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    (Original post by Napp)
    That is the most stupid statement i have read so far this year and there is heavy competition.
    you do know a great number of cancers are chemo resistant right? Not to mention i cant blame a single person for not wanting it, it is a truly horrifying treatment that is little different than being pumped full of poison.
    If they don't have chemo, then they have other physical treatment. My point is that cancer is not psychological and can only be cured biologically, and if someone refuses this biological treatment, they can't be helped. How is that stupid to say?
    I do know that people refuse further treatment if their cancer returned or they've been given a terminal diagnosis.

    Funny that you call it poison yet it saves thousands of lives
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    This doesn't at all explain why people still commit suicide post transition
    Because cis people also commit suicide - dysphoria isn't the only reason for suicide

    Because trans people even post transition face discrimination and bigotry and hatred

    Because transphobia in mental health care is common and so trans people seeking help for depression or other mental illness unrelated to their transition are often denied care (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/07/09...-arm-syndrome/ )

    What level of suicide rate among post-transition people would you accept?
 
 
 
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