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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    The burkini is essentially a wetsuit that also covers the hair. France have not banned the wearing of the hijab in public places, so it's rather weak to argue that they banned the burkini because it's a religious symbol.
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    Another user you has zero understanding of French culture. As I've said if anyone has a problem with this, and other parts of French secular tradition, they don't have to go to France and they can leave.

    This should be rolled out across the rest of Europe. If most Muslims are truly peaceful, there will be no problem but if they turn into terrorists because of things like this, it will say something about what true Islam is.
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    So, this isn't banned right... :?
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    (Original post by Jehaan)
    What if a Christian woman just wants to cover up? What if an atheist decides they want to cover up? It's not a swimsuit limited solely to people of one religious group and its limiting the freedom of expression of those in France. It is no way a religious garment and should be worn by all those who want to wear it and those who don't want to wear it shouldn't have a problem as its not affecting them
    Wear a long sleeve shirt and jeans or leggings then and a normal wetsuit with no religious connotation which a Burkini does have. Which non Muslims wouldn't wear anyway.

    Don't like it? Guess what? Tough!
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    (Original post by XOR_)

    So, this isn't banned right... :?
    No as it doesn't have any religious connotation.
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    This whole debate is ridiculous.You can already wear a full body wetsuit anyway.If muslims are losing their **** over a womans hair not being covered then it says a heck of a lot about Islam doesnt it?
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    The sooner it's banned in the UK, along with the burka, the better.Good on France.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Wearing a burkini signifies that you hold your religion to be more important than anything else.Since
    its not actually a requirement to wear one in Islam, its taking islam to the extreme.The difference is that in saudi its not a choice to be covered up and this is an extension of that.Muslim women are forced or indoctrinated into believing they must cover up.They dont do it out of free choice.By banning it we're protecting their right to free expression and the right not to be forced into covering up.Using liberty,equality and fraternity in that context is just *******ising the original meaning of the term since Islam is completely at odds with enlightenment values.
    Firstly, are you thinking of the burka? That's rather different to the burkini.
    How did you come to the conclusion that Muslim women are forced to cover up and don't do it out of free choice? I hope you've carried out some substantial research that led you to such generalisations.

    You talk about protecting their right not to be forced to cover up, but what about their right not to be forced to not cover up? Or is that just not as important as the former? If you truly believed in women's right and liberty, you'd support the free wearing of the bikini just as much as the free wearing of the burka-or the burkini in this case.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Another user you has zero understanding of French culture. As I've said if anyone has a problem with this, and other parts of French secular tradition, they don't have to go to France and they can leave.

    This should be rolled out across the rest of Europe. If most Muslims are truly peaceful, there will be no problem but if they turn into terrorists because of things like this, it will say something about what true Islam is.
    I probably have a better understanding of French culture than you. I'm French by nationality and study/live in Paris :yy:


    You didn't respond to any of my points- I think that says enough.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    Firstly, are you thinking of the burka? That's rather different to the burkini.
    How did you come to the conclusion that Muslim women are forced to cover up and don't do it out of free choice? I hope you've carried out some substantial research that led you to such generalisations.
    .
    Well, Saudi Arabia, the biggest sunni country in the world and he holiest place for Muslims and Iran, the biggest Shia country in the world, women have to cover up.

    We shouldn't judge Islam by western Muslims, we should judge it by Muslim majority countries and the traditional Islamic part of the world. That's the true Islam.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    I probably have a better understanding of French culture than you. I'm French by nationality and study/live in Paris :yy:

    You didn't respond to any of my points- I think that says enough.
    I'm half French so I do have a good understanding thank you very much.

    You'll understand the strong tradition of secularism then and you'd support it.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    Firstly, are you thinking of the burka? That's rather different to the burkini.
    How did you come to the conclusion that Muslim women are forced to cover up and don't do it out of free choice? I hope you've carried out some substantial research that led you to such generalisations.

    You talk about protecting their right not to be forced to cover up, but what about their right not to be forced to not cover up? Or is that just not as important as the former? If you truly believed in women's right and liberty, you'd support the free wearing of the bikini just as much as the free wearing of the burka-or the burkini in this case.

    I dont need to do extensive research because its fairly obvious.You only have to look across the middle east to see a strong culture of men forcing women to cover up.In saudi arabia women are forced to wear the burka and are not allowed to drive.Its similar in a lot of islamic countries.In indonesia a women was recently flogged for simply going on a date with a boy.Thats oppression,thats not liberty and definitely not freedom.In the west what has happened is that some muslims have simply imported their culture.Its still strongly frowned upon not to cover up in muslim communities in the west so no its not a free choice.Thats why you see muslim women covering up on a ludicrously hot day, do you really think that they wouldnt prefer to actually feel the wind? But they dare not take the hijab off because of what people in their community might think.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Well, Saudi Arabia, the biggest sunni country in the world and he holiest place for Muslims and Iran, the biggest Shia country in the world, women have to cover up.

    We shouldn't judge Islam by western Muslims, we should judge it by Muslim majority countries and the traditional Islamic part of the world. That's the true Islam.
    It's a good thing not all Muslim women are concentrated into those two countries then, isn't it..

    More deflecting. Quelle surprise.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    I'm half French so I do have a good understanding thank you very much.

    You'll understand the strong tradition of secularism then and you'd support it.
    Why is the hijab not banned in public places in France?
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    It's a good thing not all Muslim women are concentrated into those two countries then, isn't it..

    More deflecting. Quelle surprise.
    Umm, they were two examples. We should judge Islam on how it's conducted in traditional Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.


    (Original post by childofthesun)
    Why is the hijab not banned in public places in France?

    That's something to ask the French government. Not me.
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    (Original post by childofthesun)
    Firstly, are you thinking of the burka? That's rather different to the burkini.
    How did you come to the conclusion that Muslim women are forced to cover up and don't do it out of free choice? I hope you've carried out some substantial research that led you to such generalisations.

    You talk about protecting their right not to be forced to cover up, but what about their right not to be forced to not cover up? Or is that just not as important as the former? If you truly believed in women's right and liberty, you'd support the free wearing of the bikini just as much as the free wearing of the burka-or the burkini in this case.
    People come to that conclusion because people who are not Muslims and have not been told to wear a burka/hijab/other religious dress do not. You don't wear a hijab if you've not been told to.

    If your primary concern is not showing skin (whether that is because of allergy, embarrassment, self consciousness, or you believe your deity doesn't want you to/men have the right to rape you if not, etc), then you can wear a wide range of clothing - rash vests, boardshorts/pants, wetsuits, or every just wear clothes over your swim costume. The burkini in particular is a religious item. Nobody is corroding your freedom to wear clothes that hide your legs or arms or hair or whatever - just clothing that is purposely designed to dehumanise you.

    It is sad that women are being told that they cannot even go for a swim or sit on a beach without having to dress a certain way to appease their god.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    I dont need to do extensive research because its fairly obvious.You only have to look across the middle east to see a strong culture of men forcing women to cover up.In saudi arabia women are forced to wear the burka and are not allowed to drive.Its similar in a lot of islamic countries.In indonesia a women was recently flogged for simply going on a date with a boy.Thats oppression,thats not liberty and definitely not freedom.In the west what has happened is that some muslims have simply imported their culture.Its still strongly frowned upon not to cover up in muslim communities in the west so no its not a free choice.Thats why you see muslim women covering up on a ludicrously hot day, do you really think that they wouldnt prefer to actually feel the wind? But they dare not take the hijab off because of what people in their community might think.
    It is fairly obvious that every single Muslim woman is forced into covering up? You cannot reasonably claim this by basing your argument on extreme countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran. I don't deny that some women are truly oppressed, but your generalisation is flawed. Not all Muslim women have the same experiences or are raised in the same type of community. Some might be forced by their families to wear the hijab, while others come from a family that actively discourages it.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Umm, they were two examples. We should judge Islam on how it's conducted in traditional Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.
    Exactly. Can you name any countries where Islam dominates, yet freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equal rights laws prevail? ...
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    Cannes Film Festival is one of the biggest events in France, with the world's eyes on them. Why would France want a bunch of people in islamic dress representing their country?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    You're totally missing the point and have ZERO idea or knowledge on how important secularism is in France. A Burkini is a religious symbol.

    If covering up is so important, they can wear a wetsuit. If it isn't - there's no problem in it being banned.
    Not missing the point. I believe in the foundations of our society which is freedom. That is what France stands for. This is pure hypocrisy and they are limiting the freedoms of people. Yes they are secular but they still have FREEDOM of religion, if you don't like that then go and join some communist or fascist dictatorship.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Exactly. Can you name any countries where Islam dominates, yet freedom of speech, freedom of religion and equal rights laws prevail? ...
    But what do you mean by where Islam dominates? Do you mean Muslim majority? Cause if so there are quite a few countries that fit your criteria
 
 
 
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