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    Oh **** off.

    Go to a country like Americ where you can't be so much as looked out without a lengthy deposition regarding insurance
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    (Original post by asif007)
    Honestly this made me LOL. If you had any common sense, you would know that the Department of Health is just a front for government spin and lies about the NHS. Why anyone would choose to listen to a bunch of self-entitled policy-makers who have never worked a day in the NHS, as opposed to the actual doctors on the front line, is beyond me. But then again, you've probably never worked a day in the NHS either. Suddenly you're an expert on it? Grow up and read between the lines.

    This is the truth of what's going on behind the scenes, and how the DoH are trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes. Some schmucks like you just fall for it hook, line and sinker. You know the saying - we cannot help the ignorant.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-day-nhs-plans

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-seven-day-nhs
    Maybe you are right.

    But Im not like you at all. I have an open mind. You are the man who ignored the six points I wrote on why you were wrong. You responded by saying "DR (didnt read). TL. IDGAF"
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Not all immigrants pay more tax than they take out.
    I know not all do, but on average they do.

    Look at the cost of the Tax credit benefits. Tax credits costed £1.1 billion in 1999. In 2014 tax credits now cost the UK +£30 billion pounds. It is increasing as we have uncontrolled borders and more immigrants coming in.
    The cost of welfare is negligible in budget terms for EU migrants, it just makes good newspaper headlines and rhetoric for UKIP.

    70% of the welfare budget goes on pensions so even benefits for everyone aren't as big an issue as people make them out to be, let alone a minority within a minority.
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    (Original post by asif007)
    This is the truth of what's going on behind the scenes, and how the DoH are trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes.
    I'm no NHS expert but how anyone can believe what comes out of somewhere run by Jeremy Hunt is beyond me.

    I mean the guy authored a pamphlet endorsing privatisation ffs.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Maybe you are right.

    But Im not like you at all. I have an open mind. You are the man who ignored the six points I wrote on why you were wrong. You responded by saying "DR (didnt read). TL. IDGAF"
    Mate, I think you need to calm down and realise that not everything is as black and white as you make it out to be. Regardless of the EU vote, the government has an agenda for the NHS, hence why they are ignoring all the doctors and medical colleges. The BBC is just another government mouthpiece. Just because I didn't have the patience to sit and read through your rant full of quoted figures which have no relevance to this debate about the current state of the NHS, doesn't mean my views are any less true than yours. Except I'm speaking from first-hand experience of working in the NHS, supporting the junior doctors and joining the rallies. I don't just blindly listen to government spin without thinking about it for myself. You do realise that Blackburn is a Leave stronghold, and all the people interviewed were white British?You don't think that's going to put some bias on their views about immigrants causing problems for the NHS?
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I'm no NHS expert but how anyone can believe what comes out of somewhere run by Jeremy Hunt is beyond me.

    I mean the guy authored a pamphlet endorsing privatisation ffs.
    Round of applause my friend. Here's someone who can use their brain and see through all the government lies, spin, deceit etc. I wish we could say the same of everyone else.
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    (Original post by asif007)
    Mate, I think you need to calm down and realise that not everything is as black and white as you make it out to be. Regardless of the EU vote, the government has an agenda for the NHS, hence why they are ignoring all the doctors and medical colleges. The BBC is just another government mouthpiece. Just because I didn't have the patience to sit and read through your rant full of quoted figures which have no relevance to this debate about the current state of the NHS, doesn't mean my views are any less true than yours.
    That shows your ignorance. You made a comment on this thread accusing Nigel Farage about lying £350 million. So I answered and gave you logical reasons why you are wrong. You also challenged and accused me and the Leave camp of our outlook on immigration. I answered and I gave you logical reasons why you were wrong.
    If you had any decency or any sense of justice, you would at least be bothered to have a look and read what I said.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    That shows your ignorance. You made a comment on this thread accusing Nigel Farage about lying £350 million. So I answered and gave you logical reasons why you are wrong. You also challenged and accused me and the Leave camp of our outlook on immigration. I answered and I gave you logical reasons why you were wrong.
    If you had any decency or any sense of justice, you would at least be bothered to have a look and read what I said.
    Mate, I look at evidence as part of the career I'm working for. If I think the evidence is BS or based on lies, I'm gonna say so and stop reading. That doesn't make me ignorant, that makes me objective about the facts.

    Nigel Farage WAS lying about the £350 million going to the NHS if Leave won. He announced it on ****ing national TV the day after the vote. If this doesn't show you, I don't know what will.

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    (Original post by asif007)
    Mate, I look at evidence as part of the career I'm working for. If I think the evidence is BS or based on lies, I'm gonna say so and stop reading. That doesn't make me ignorant, that makes me objective about the facts.

    Nigel Farage WAS lying about the £350 million going to the NHS if Leave won. He announced it on ****ing national TV the day after the vote. If this doesn't show you, I don't know what will.
    According to the Office For National Statistics which is the recognised national institute for the UK and responsible for collecting UK economy statistics - UK balance of payments - 2015:

    (Chapter 09) Table 9.9 which shows the UK's Total debits to the EU was £19.1 billion in 2014.

    19.1 billion divided by 52 weeks. This works out at £367 million per week. Vote Leave rounded it to £350 mil.

    ^ Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nation...ntsthepinkbook

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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Yup. OP's ignorance is mind-boggling.

    I work in insurance and health insurers actually have to build huge reserves, specifically called old-age reserves, for the simple fact that old people cost them a TON more. Young people subsidize old people in health insurance. And if one actually stopped to think about it, that is even common sense. But I suppose if the referendum has showed us anything, it's that the majority of Brits lack common sense.
    Okay, I was fine sitting back here until you brought the rest of leave voters into it.

    There were advantages and disadvantages to being in the EU, and in the end, it was everyone for themselves.

    You might like free movement; Joe Bloggs next door might like the British steel industry. (Although part of the blame is due to the UK government and the structure of Tata Steel (private equity), most of the reasons for the decline is due to the EU and its carbon tax. )

    You might like access to the single market; Jane Doe next door might dislike CAP and its primary benefit to large farmers.

    I can go on forever, so get lost with your arrogance.
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    (Original post by Rorschach II)
    Okay, I was fine sitting back here until you brought the rest of leave voters into it.

    There were advantages and disadvantages to being in the EU, and in the end, it was everyone for themselves.

    You might like free movement; Joe Bloggs next door might like the British steel industry. (Although part of the blame is due to the UK government and the structure of Tata Steel (private equity), most of the reasons for the decline is due to the EU and its carbon tax. )

    You might like access to the single market; Jane Doe next door might dislike CAP and its primary benefit to large farmers.

    I can go on forever, so get lost with your arrogance.
    Nope.

    For as long as you pretend that it was the logically better choice, rather than biased opinion, I will be here calling you out on it.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Not all immigrants pay more tax than they take out. Look at the cost of the Tax credit benefits. Tax credits costed £1.1 billion in 1999. In 2014 tax credits now cost the UK +£30 billion pounds. It is increasing as we have uncontrolled borders and more immigrants coming in.
    When I read this, I said something out loud that had I written it down would for sure get me banned.

    You have been told for days now that the net impact of EU immigrants is positive. And yet you bang on about some of them not doing well.

    Are you really that arrogant that you aren't satisfied with the net already being positive, but every single one of them having to be? You want to go case by case? You keep talking about tax credits, but you sound like you have no idea what they are. Tell me, what do you think they have to do with immigrants?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    When I read this, I said something out loud that had I written it down would for sure get me banned.

    You have been told for days now that the net impact of EU immigrants is positive. And yet you bang on about some of them not doing well.

    Are you really that arrogant that you aren't satisfied with the net already being positive, but every single one of them having to be? You want to go case by case? You keep talking about tax credits, but you sound like you have no idea what they are. Tell me, what do you think they have to do with immigrants?
    Cheap labour causes average working class's wages to get lower. It is having a major impact on the country.. Period.

    Net impact does not give us a reason to carry on being part of the EU and carry on having our public services open to 508 million people.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Cheap labour causes average working class's wages to get lower. It is having a major impact on the country.. Period.

    Net impact does not give us a reason to carry on being part of the EU and carry on having our public services open to 508 million people.
    That potential has been open for years and nothing happened. But you want to close your country off because you are scared it might happen? Ok then.

    Cheap labor means you pay less for your services. If you cared so much about using an English handyman and that he earns more, why do you not tell the Polish guy that comes sorry mate, I got Joe right here who I will use and I will pay him 150% of what you are asking for. Cheap labor means your veg is cheap because of immigrants working in the fields, in the first place doing something fat, lazy Brits don't want to do, and doing it cheaper. Etc. etc. etc.

    But no, you lot take the cheap labor, then turn around and cry about it.

    If it weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    That potential has been open for years and nothing happened. But you want to close your country off because you are scared it might happen? Ok then.

    Cheap labor means you pay less for your services. If you cared so much about using an English handyman and that he earns more, why do you not tell the Polish guy that comes sorry mate, I got Joe right here who I will use and I will pay him 150% of what you are asking for. Cheap labor means your veg is cheap because of immigrants working in the fields, in the first place doing something fat, lazy Brits don't want to do, and doing it cheaper. Etc. etc. etc.

    But no, you lot take the cheap labor, then turn around and cry about it.

    If it weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.
    You should be happy if we have no free movement then you can have all this cheap labour to drive down your wage.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You should be happy if we have no free movement then you can have all this cheap labour to drive down your wage.
    It's hard to decipher the point you were trying to make. At any rate, what you did write is total nonsense.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    According to the Office For National Statistics which is the recognised national institute for the UK and responsible for collecting UK economy statistics - UK balance of payments - 2015:

    (Chapter 09) Table 9.9 which shows the UK's Total debits to the EU was £19.1 billion in 2014.

    19.1 billion divided by 52 weeks. This works out at £367 million per week. Vote Leave rounded it to £350 mil.

    ^ Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nation...ntsthepinkbook

    Honestly, you're flogging a dead horse mate. That video basically reinforces the point I was making above, about Farage and the Leave campaign lying about that money going to the NHS. Watch the last 10 seconds of your video, it's spelled out clearly for you right there. I don't care what the real figures are or what the ONS says or whether Leave rounded it up or down. The ONS isn't deciding where the money is going. The point is that the funding is never going to the NHS - that was a total lie. Leave plastered it all over the sides of buses and it took only a few hours after the result for Farage to do a U-turn. Those of us who voted Remain saw that coming months before the referendum. It's just a shame most people bought into the government's lies and spin.
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    (Original post by asif007)
    I don't care what the real figures are or what the ONS says or whether Leave rounded it up or down. The ONS isn't deciding where the money is going. The point is that the funding is never going to the NHS - that was a total lie. Leave plastered it all over the sides of buses and it took only a few hours after the result for Farage to do a U-turn. Those of us who voted Remain saw that coming months before the referendum. It's just a shame most people bought into the government's lies and spin.
    That bold writing shows your blatant ignorance. You are in denial.

    The Office for National Statistics (ONS) is the UK's largest independent producer of official statistics and the recognised national statistical institute of the UK.

    How can you know if the funding will never go to the NHS? You are just speculating.
    Fact: We havent even left the EU yet.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    That bold writing shows your blatant ignorance. You are in denial.

    The Office for National Statistics (ONS) is the UK's largest independent producer of official statistics and the recognised national statistical institute of the UK.
    You did not understand the point of the part in bold...

    It doesn't matter what the ONS says the statistics are now. What matters is you thought after Brexit the NHS would get more money.

    That thought was wrong and in the eyes of a remainer, it was blatantly wrong. And as Farage's U-turn, which happened so fast you couldn't even say Article 50, showed, they were right.

    I wonder, do you actually read what we write, or just bits of it and immediately write of the first thing that comes to your mind that sounds like its a "counter argument"? Do you actually think about these things? Like critical thinking, were you taught how to do that? Question your own beliefs? Because this right here is not a matter of opinion. It is fact.
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    I can't believe you believe everything that the right wing UKIP/BNP parties tell you. Just walk into any hospital and you'll see the vast majority of people there are eldery people. Immigrants are overall healthy young and fit people and are less likely to use the NHS. They are here to work and leave after they are finished saving up money.
    It's just that the NHS is underfunded at the moment and the appointments are harder to find because we have a shortage of Gps and a shortage of staff and an ageing population. So get your facts right and stop blaming everything on immigrants
    Our government spends less on healthcare than countries in the EU put together what does that tell you? They are deliberately under-funding it so that it gets into greedy private companies who are only after making a quick profit!!
 
 
 
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