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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    I'm saying youre wrong, and I disagree. But then this phases you, since your perspective is the reality. but cool, i've had enough now, i know what you're about haha.
    Fazes*
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Fazes*
    yes, it does, just admit it and move on.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    The main point hasn't been pay, despite the media perpetuating this. Yes, pay is a factor as the new contract seeks to slash the pay for certain specialities and working styles, but it is not the main issue. But I repeat, at no point have doctors asked for more money. To the contary, doctors salaries have essentially been fixed since the 70s contributing to an overall pay cut, as well as removal of free accommodation and increasing costs in practicing medicine. Yet there hasn't been a doctors strike in 40 years, until now.
    At no point have they asked for more money, except for, you know, when they were asking for more money? If the whole thing has been about how much the basic pay rate goes up and how little premium rates go down it is about pay, or do you not recognise basic PAY and premium PAY as pay? It's as if they;'re negotiating over rates of, what's the word I'm looking for, ummm, I think it's PAY.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    At no point have they asked for more money, except for, you know, when they were asking for more money? If the whole thing has been about how much the basic pay rate goes up and how little premium rates go down it is about pay, or do you not recognise basic PAY and premium PAY as pay? It's as if they;'re negotiating over rates of, what's the word I'm looking for, ummm, I think it's PAY.
    One aspect of the contract has been fighting against a paycut (in the region of 20% for some rotas), in the context of fixed salaries since the 80s and a rising cost of practicing medicine. This isn't the same as fighting for a payrise.
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    This is why I use private health care at a private hospital for all my medical needs.

    In fact, my dog gets better care and a better service from the veterinary group i use than people get from the NHS
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    This is why I use private health care at a private hospital for all my medical needs.

    In fact, my dog gets better care and a better service from the veterinary group i use than people get from the NHS
    Zzz, how many times are you going to copy and paste this troll comment before you give up on attention seeking?
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    Zzz, how many times are you going to copy and paste this troll comment before you give up on attention seeking?
    It's relevant to both discussions, that's why. I'm not attention seeking but if you have that in your head there's nothing I can do.
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    Coming back to this after a few days, those of you who think doctors are being greedy: let's say they get the 30% pay cut, increased stress, longer hours. When you end up in A+E I hope you realise why your level of care is likely to decline - but somehow it's the same fusspots saying junior doctors have it easy / should stop being fussy, who are the ones that complain about the care they receive at hospital.

    The bigger societal issue is a sense of entitlement - these are people who will whine about the state of NHS services and also winge that doctors are looking for fair working conditions.
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    (Original post by motoroller)

    The bigger societal issue is a sense of entitlement - these are people who will whine about the state of NHS services and also winge that doctors are looking for fair working conditions.
    Couldn't agree more
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    Well you have to laugh, the BMA have cancelled the strike next week as you have no doubt heard. God help any of us if we meet any of these guys in a clinical setting. Good judgement doesn't seem part of their skill set, breweries and piss ups come to mind.

    They have lost, it is as simple as that. The Tories can't cave in, won't cave in, and their political position is unassailable post Brexit. So the Doctors are going to have to capitulate. It won't happen quickly or all at once, but it WILL happen. And it is going to get very nasty, for patients, the NHS and the JD's themselves.

    You could see striking Doctor's getting struck off or sued from here. If any relative of mine became harmed as a result of one of these upcoming strikes (assuming they don't cave in immediately) I would sue in a heartbeat.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Well you have to laugh, the BMA have cancelled the strike next week as you have no doubt heard. God help any of us if we meet any of these guys in a clinical setting. Good judgement doesn't seem part of their skill set, breweries and piss ups come to mind.
    A formal risk assessment deemed the first strike to be of risk to patients due to trusts not being given enough notice and was therefore cancelled.

    Seems like a reasonable judgement, to me.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    A formal risk assessment deemed the first strike to be of risk to patients due to trusts not being given enough notice and was therefore cancelled.

    Seems like a reasonable judgement, to me.
    The catastrophic error in judgement was calling next week's strike in the first place.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    The catastrophic error in judgement was calling next week's strike in the first place.
    The alternative being?
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    One aspect of the contract has been fighting against a paycut (in the region of 20% for some rotas), in the context of fixed salaries since the 80s and a rising cost of practicing medicine. This isn't the same as fighting for a payrise.
    Try telling all people on genuinely low wages that doctors are underpaid and show them the pay progression and say the doctors are underpaid and see how long it takes to need a doctor.

    But the support is now lost. About a 8 point swing to opposing strikes since last time and a similar swing on who is to blame against the BMA

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Try telling all people on genuinely low wages that doctors are underpaid and show them the pay progression and say the doctors are underpaid and see how long it takes to need a doctor.

    But the support is now lost. About a 8 point swing to opposing strikes since last time and a similar swing on who is to blame against the BMA

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    1. This isn't a race to the bottom.
    2. Doctors aren't asking for a pay rise.
    3. This dispute extends way beyond pay, despite the media wanting to focus on it as the only issue.
    4. GP waiting times are not relevant. This is about the junior doctor contract.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    The alternative being?
    Not going on strike ever. Duh.

    By the way, despite your specious attempt to describe this as a well thought out, responsible move, your mates at the Guardian describe the real reason for the volte face.

    The tinpot, trainee Trots in the BMA leadership couldn't get the membership out for next week...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...es-of-protests

    Aren't you embarrassed to be represented by this shower of endlessly student revolutionaries? Seriously?

    Che Guevara may have had a medical qualification but he really isn't a great role model for the leadership of a so called "professional" body.

    You are becoming a laughing stock. Your problems will really start, though, when the laughter turns to fury.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Not going on strike ever. Duh.

    By the way, despite your specious attempt to describe this as a well thought out, responsible move, your mates at the Guardian describe the real reason for the volte face.

    The tinpot, trainee Trots in the BMA leadership couldn't get the membership out for next week...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...es-of-protests

    Aren't you embarrassed to be represented by this shower of endlessly student revolutionaries? Seriously?

    Che Guevara may have had a medical qualification but he really isn't a great role model for the leadership of a so called "professional" body.

    You are becoming a laughing stock. Your problems will really start, though, when the laughter turns to fury.
    I don't buy that guardian article at all. The strike was called off due to safety concerns by NHS England who wanted more notice. This was respected. It was not called off due to the demand of the BMA membership. For this to be even claimed shows how out of touch the media is with the true feelings of junior doctors. There is so much anger in the workforce. Many doctors are actually calling for an all-out, on-going strike until further notice and are frustrated with how restrained the BMA are being.

    The reluctant choice to undertake further industrial action is a democratic decision, given by tens of thousands of junior doctors. Your attempt at attributing this to a small group of "trots" is delusional.
 
 
 
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