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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Whoa. Just ask yourselves this. When you are arrested, do you really need to see the face of the person arresting you? It's just not essential.
    I would not be at all comfortable with police patrolling the streets with their faces covered, muslim or otherwise.

    It has always been a fundamental principle that the police should be readily identifiable to the public. And it's not just some pointless tradition, it is to deter and prevent corruption and abuse of power. They are not supposed to be some annonymous army, they are a public service of the people, for the people. Allowing muslim officers to cover their faces in their normal police duties would violate this principle.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Whoa. Just ask yourselves this. When you are arrested, do you really need to see the face of the person arresting you? It's just not essential.
    (Original post by Wōden)
    I would not be at all comfortable with police patrolling the streets with their faces covered, muslim or otherwise.
    This a moot point since the proposal is to allow for Hijabs. Hijabs do not cover the face.

    As for the proposal, I don't have an issue with it. Maybe it'll encourage more Muslim women to join the police. I may be wrong but I don't think there are many of those in the police force at all. Given that this is the Birmingham area, that's not a good thing.
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    Surely any Muslimah devout enough to insist on wearing the niqab/burqa at work would not allow themselves to be in the company of non mahram men.
    Or will we simply see more cherry-picking?
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    To be honest, I have never met a muslim who's bullied me for being gay or abused me or told me I should die. I have, however, met tonnes of average British people - atheists or Christian - who have.
    Come come! Are you seriously claiming that, in general, Muslims are more accepting of homosexuality than atheists? Because we both know that's a very stinky pile of ********.
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    (Original post by generallee)



    A new undercover squad from CID gathering evidence in Birmingham.

    Note the absence of helmets...
    Phwoarr! Look at those hands! Mmmm...
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    So what? Who are you to dictate what women should wear?

    Freedom
    Sproinggg!
    There goes another spring on my Acme Irony-o-Meter™
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Come come! Are you seriously claiming that, in general, Muslims are more accepting of homosexuality than atheists? Because we both know that's a very stinky pile of ********.
    Not in the slightest.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I am not in favour of absolute freedom at all. How does defending the right to wear what you want providing it doesn't cause rational offence or harm, suddenly mean I'm pro-everything?
    Let me give you a hand with those goalposts, they look heavy.

    PS, how does the natural human form cause "rational offence or harm"?
    If you are going to cite some people's irrational aversion to seeing people "au naturel", then you are going to have difficulty explaining why it is wrong for some people to have an aversion to questionable ideological symbolism.

    (JFTR, I would oppose any legislation on the niqab, burqa, etc, other that where it applies to all other face covering/masks, etc)
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Not in the slightest.
    So you support the group that want to put you death and oppose those who have your back and are prepared to defend your right to exercise your sexuality in freedom and safety?

    Makes sense.
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    (Original post by epage)
    by this logic, we should blame christians for the KKK
    No, because the KKK was a white supremacist, political organisation formed with the aim of influencing the course of reconstruction of southern states after the civil war, in favour of the powerful plantation owners. It had no religious aims (other than being anti-Catholic) and certainly did not advocate the establishment of a Christian theocracy modelled on a literalist reading of the Bible.

    You know, I get really tired of people trotting out the "Ooh, but the KKK!" argument by people who have no knowledge of the KKK other than some B&W photos of men in hoods standing by a burning cross.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    No. Not entirely. It's about the fact it's terrorism. Not Islamic. the IRA and many other organisations caused much higher rates of devastation in the world than any Islamic group to date. But nobody ever whinges about the religion, skin colour, or origin of those groups and they pleasantly forget the statistics.
    Whoah! The IRA caused more devastation than ISIS? Really?
    The RAF more devatation than Al Qaeda?
    Shining Path more devastation than Taliban?

    I'm not entirely sure about that.

    And IIRC, people roundly criticised the ideological foundations of all those groups.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    https://www.facebook.com/ThisIsZinc/...6501877550483/

    Just one that presents the stats.
    You are asked for a source for a quantative claim, and you link to some blokes Facebook page?
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Why should they do it, mate? You're saying the actions of one person makes them all to blame? I'm sorry, no. That's not how it works.
    If a member of a golf club killed a load of people, and claimed that he did it because the rules of the golf club authorised it, it would seem only natural for the other members of the golf club to publicly state that the golf club condemned the killings? In fact, it would seem pretty odd if they didn't.

    NOTE: we need to differentiate between terms. I think it is entirely reasonable in these situations to expect condemnation of actions, but it is not reasonable to expect an apology.
    However, I am not aware of anyone, apart from people rejecting the need to apologise to apologise, who raises the issue of an apology.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Can you talk without using insults?
    No. It is the last line of defence for the failing SJW apologist.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    the leading Imam of the local Muslim community in Orlando made a speech and offered support to the whole LGBT community.
    I'm guessing that it isn't the same Imam speaking in Orlando who explicitly stated that the punishment for homosexuality is death?
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    No. Not entirely. It's about the fact it's terrorism. Not Islamic. the IRA and many other organisations caused much higher rates of devastation in the world than any Islamic group to date. But nobody ever whinges about the religion, skin colour, or origin of those groups and they pleasantly forget the statistics.


    You don't know the statistics.

    Circa 3,600 people were killed over thirty years in the Troubles (not all by the IRA by any means).

    Just under 3,000 were killed by Muslim terrorism in one attack on one day on 9/11.

    More than 1,200 have been killed by ISIS outside Iraq and Syria.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...the-world.html

    Of course many more thousands have died within those two unfortunate countries...
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    (Original post by biglad2k16)
    Are you trying to say that Islam is somehow more accepting of gays than Christianity?
    It's a mixture of cultural relativism and the "soft racism of low expectations".
    It goes something like...
    "They aren't really more accepting, but they are Brown Foreigners with a proud and ancient culture, so it's different, because they don't really know it's wrong, bless 'em. And defending them will really get up the noses of the middle-class white folks (which, ironically, we all are!)."
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Not in the slightest.
    So what was the point of the anecdote?
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    What an utterly, utterly STUPID idea. If they did this, they would truely have lost the plot. Also why are they so keen for BME officers to be at 30% when they are 15% of the population. I am so so upset that they would even THINK about allowing this- how on earth are you supposed to hold an officer accountable for their actions if you have no way of identifying them? Imagine an officer beats up a member of the public but you can't identify them because they are wearing a burka. I mean it's moronic beyond belief....
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    https://www.facebook.com/ThisIsZinc/...6501877550483/

    Just one that presents the stats.
    I have already replied to you with the true picture, which you can yourself verify from reputable sources if you are interested in the truth.

    The enclosed is a joke. A total joke. If you seriously believe [email protected] like this, no wonder you are a self hating gay apologist for Islamism.
 
 
 
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