How did Hillary win the first debate?

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    As people have already said, online polls are pretty much worthless - anyone can vote on them, and there's no sampling, weighting or professional methodology involved. All the serious professional polls and focus groups - including those run by GOP strategists, like Frank Luntz - concluded that Clinton won.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    You don't know that he hoped it would crash. He simply took advantage of it.

    As President your primary goal should be to spend every dollar of tax money wisely, not to milk every dollar you can of other peoples money.

    His only reply to Hillary saying that he hoped the market would crash was 'well that's called business'
    So by keeping millions of tax dollars for himself instead of investing into his country, shows that he would spend tax money wisely??

    I get if you're anti Clinton, but you must have more sense than to think Trump would be a good president.

    Both are rubbish don't get me wrong, but Trump has to be the biggest joke and the debate just showcased it.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    His only reply to Hillary saying that he hoped the market would crash was 'well that's called business'
    So by keeping millions of tax dollars for himself instead of investing into his country, shows that he would spend tax money wisely??

    I get if you're anti Clinton, but you must have more sense than to think Trump would be a good president.

    Both are rubbish don't get me wrong, but Trump has to be the biggest joke and the debate just showcased it.
    If you think Trump hasn't invested in America your crazy. The gov. would have squandered what Trump would have paid in a few seconds.

    I think obama wins the biggest joke prize, hands down
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I'm so glad that the Daily Mail has gone to the effort of explaining why the CNN poll was biased towards Clinton, but hasn't extended this same forensic analysis to all of the polls purporting to support Trump.
    The reasoning that the CNN poll was 'biased' is pretty spurious. Various right-wingers have been saying for years that certain polls are biased due to "sampling too many Democrats". There were sites claiming last time that the polls were "skewed" in this way and that Romney was really ahead the whole time - they were wrong.

    Firstly, polls usually don't sample or weight for party identification at all, because it's not a demographic, it's a political opinion. An opinion that can (and often does) change as easily as their preferred candidates.

    Secondly, there are simply more Democrats. With the possible exception of 2004, when they were about equal, there have been more self-identifying Democrats than Republicans in every presidential election since records began, even in the 1980s Republican landsides. If polls were actually going to sample and weight for party identification, then the methodologically correct thing to do would be to sample more Democrats.

    Thirdly, we don't know who exactly watched the debate. CNN say their sampling is representative, and that if it has more Democrats then that simply suggests more Democrats were watching. I don't know if that's true, but there's no obvious reason to believe it's not.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    If you think Trump hasn't invested in America your crazy. The gov. would have squandered what Trump would have paid in a few seconds.

    I think obama wins the biggest joke prize, hands down
    Ah jeez, now I know I've wasted my time. I've said it before I'll say it again, the only thing worse than Trump, is Trump supporters.

    I can't argue with stupid
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    You don't know that he hoped it would crash. He simply took advantage of it.

    As President your primary goal should be to spend every dollar of tax money wisely, not to milk every dollar you can of other peoples money.
    Then it's too bad that he used money from his charity to pay the legal bills that his for profit companies owed.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    Ah jeez, now I know I've wasted my time. I've said it before I'll say it again, the only thing worse than Trump, is Trump supporters.

    I can't argue with stupid
    Sure you can. You just don't want to.

    We just have two different ways of looking at the gov.

    You probably think the gov. should be prepared to offer cradle to grave security.
    I believe gov. should intervene only as a last resort and only for the shortest time as necessary to help someone out of their present situation. No one should expect to stay on Gov. money their whole life.
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    (Original post by Fred5134)
    Then it's too bad that he used money from his charity to pay the legal bills that his for profit companies owed.
    If you had a link I'm sure you would have posted it. So it'a probably not true. As debt free as his company is that probably wouldn't be necessary.

    Hillary's made 200mil since they left the White House. Anything Trump's done on the shady side doesn't even come close to hillary.'s And she does think she's above the law.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    If you had a link I'm sure you would have posted it. So it'a probably not true. As debt free as his company is that probably wouldn't be necessary.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rse-mar-a-lago

    Donald Trump used $258,000 from his charity for legal settlements, reports say

    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Hillary's made 200mil since they left the White House. Anything Trump's done on the shady side doesn't even come close to hillary.'s
    Other than stealing charity money?

    Believing that all bad stories about Trump are inherently false without question is disturbing. There is nothing to suggest that it's false, especially since the Trump campaign has not even denied it.He's the guy who puts a few goats on a golf course so that he can call it farmland and get tax breaks.
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    because she isn't trump...
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    (Original post by Fred5134)
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rse-mar-a-lago

    Donald Trump used $258,000 from his charity for legal settlements, reports say



    Other than stealing charity money?

    Believing that all bad stories about Trump are inherently false without question is disturbing. There is nothing to suggest that it's false, especially since the Trump campaign has not even denied it.He's the guy who puts a few goats on a golf course so that he can call it farmland and get tax breaks.
    I believe Trump HAS probably pulled some shady tricks. I don't care. I don't really care that Clinton has made millions from selling Gov. considerations. I do care about the corruption she brought to the State Dept.

    As far as the charity money goes, 258,000 is pocket change and I've not heard anything about it in the media. If you have a link other than the guardian could you post it.

    We have way different views regarding paying taxes. Putting goats on a golf course and calling it farmland is the kind of thing most Americans dream about.
    If you feel it's a better or more noble thing to deny yourself similar kinds of tax breaks in order to raise the amount of taxes you owe, you probably havent started paying income tax yet.
    Almost 20 trillion in debt and Hillary is promising the moon.

    About a week ago the fed. hinted in might raise rates a quarter point and the market tanked 258 points in an afternoon. Trumps is right about the bubble.

    I do believe Trump is no smarter than Hillary but the mindset these two have regarding how to run a country couldn't be farther apart.
    Trumps closing the gap on the national level to the point where he's ahead in some swing states and there's over a month till the elections. Many people are looking for a reason they can vote for him. It wouldn't take much. If he can come out at a break even in the debates I believe he'll win
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    (Original post by Fred5134)
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rse-mar-a-lago

    Donald Trump used $258,000 from his charity for legal settlements, reports say



    Other than stealing charity money?

    Believing that all bad stories about Trump are inherently false without question is disturbing. There is nothing to suggest that it's false, especially since the Trump campaign has not even denied it.He's the guy who puts a few goats on a golf course so that he can call it farmland and get tax breaks.
    the article itself gives every reason to believe its false. Theres not one definitive statement in the whole article.
    Give it up. Your never going to convince anyone Trump is crooked. He's lived a very public life for 30yrs. If he was a swindler or just a bad business man it would be known already. A lot of people feel someone can't make the money he has and not be crooked.
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    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    What's your reaction to these two:

    https://www.facebook.com/GavinNewsom...4413500788117/

    https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/781836246314135552
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    I believe Trump HAS probably pulled some shady tricks. I don't care. I don't really care that Clinton has made millions from selling Gov. considerations. I do care about the corruption she brought to the State Dept.

    As far as the charity money goes, 258,000 is pocket change and I've not heard anything about it in the media. If you have a link other than the guardian could you post it.

    We have way different views regarding paying taxes. Putting goats on a golf course and calling it farmland is the kind of thing most Americans dream about.
    If you feel it's a better or more noble thing to deny yourself similar kinds of tax breaks in order to raise the amount of taxes you owe, you probably havent started paying income tax yet.
    Almost 20 trillion in debt and Hillary is promising the moon.

    About a week ago the fed. hinted in might raise rates a quarter point and the market tanked 258 points in an afternoon. Trumps is right about the bubble.

    I do believe Trump is no smarter than Hillary but the mindset these two have regarding how to run a country couldn't be farther apart.
    Trumps closing the gap on the national level to the point where he's ahead in some swing states and there's over a month till the elections. Many people are looking for a reason they can vote for him. It wouldn't take much. If he can come out at a break even in the debates I believe he'll win
    Ever thought that the reason the countrynis in so much debt might have something to do with people like Trump continuously lie and cheat tax authorities to satisfy their own greed

    Thisnis what I dont understand about Trump supportrrs. He has spent his whole business career trying to lie, cheat and swindle as much money for himself, he has made everyneffort to contribute as little as possible to the US state and you think he is going to fix all the things he spent his whole life exploiting?

    Trump is stealing from the very people who support him, yet they turn around and sing his praises while he laughs in your face. Its like the socio-economic version of sado-masochism.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Ever thought that the reason the countrynis in so much debt might have something to do with people like Trump continuously lie and cheat tax authorities to satisfy their own greed

    Thisnis what I dont understand about Trump supportrrs. He has spent his whole business career trying to lie, cheat and swindle as much money for himself, he has made everyneffort to contribute as little as possible to the US state and you think he is going to fix all the things he spent his whole life exploiting?

    Trump is stealing from the very people who support him, yet they turn around and sing his praises while he laughs in your face. Its like the socio-economic version of sado-masochism.
    That's so over the top, you don't even believe it.

    "lie, cheat and swindle..." Remember the part where I said he has led a very public life? If what you say was true there would be people lined up to say what a schmuck he was. I've seen two people say that they didn't get paid and I haven't heard Trumps side of it.
    Because of his own parties attitude toward him I would wager he has had his life and dealings examined with a microscope. Nothing.
    The working middle class, the group he appeals to, is not of interest to the egg head media or the college degreed class. He doesn't express himself like they do so they don't know how to respond to him.
    Notice how Hillary doesn't run on her record? That's because her record is all bad.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    That's so over the top, you don't even believe it.

    "lie, cheat and swindle..." Remember the part where I said he has led a very public life? If what you say was true there would be people lined up to say what a schmuck he was. I've seen two people say that they didn't get paid and I haven't heard Trumps side of it.
    Because of his own parties attitude toward him I would wager he has had his life and dealings examined with a microscope. Nothing.
    The working middle class, the group he appeals to, is not of interest to the egg head media or the college degreed class. He doesn't express himself like they do so they don't know how to respond to him.
    Notice how Hillary doesn't run on her record? That's because her record is all bad.
    He (tacitly) admits that he hasnt paid federal taxes in years, denying money to those who actually need it, those people who he claims to be fighting for and the only comments from his supporters are congratulating him!

    He is a schmuk. He is facing literally hundreds of law suits from his employes for a whole range of labour transgressions, he is so toxic that no American bank will lend to him, he has bankrupted himself multiple times launched a number of terrible business that failed almost immediatley and that doesnt even include Trump University which would best be described as an extortion racket.

    Dont insinuate that I support Clinton, I dont, she's an awful candidate and represents everything wrong with anglo-american politics but holding Trump as some sort of champion of the working class isnt funny, it's ludicrous, even more ludicrous than when Johnson, Gove and Farage were held up as the same in the UK.

    Trump voters say they like straight talking, how about I do some now. Lets call a brick a brick; Trump voters are total morons, equivalent to the turkeys who voted for christmas.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Because of his own parties attitude toward him I would wager he has had his life and dealings examined with a microscope. Nothing.
    Clearly the charitable fraud, the business fraud, the racism, the misogyny, the being so obsessed with one woman's weight in the 90s that he stays up all night tweeting about it, and the rest are fine with Republicans.

    It is, of course, the party that nominated someone for Vice President without having any clue at all as to what she was like.
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    (Original post by 2016_GCSE)
    Lets look at the poll votes on who REALLY won the debates:
    http://www.infowars.com/poll-who-won...ential-debate/ (INFOWARS)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...landslide.html (DAILYMAIL)

    Yet media says Hillary won the debates?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7332091.html (NOT TRUSTED) On this subject*

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...illary-clinton
    (NOT TRUSTED) On this subject*
    You are a complete idiot if you think infowars and the daily mail are more trustworthy than the independent and the economist.

    Sorry, Hillary won.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    He (tacitly) admits that he hasnt paid federal taxes in years, denying money to those who actually need it, those people who he claims to be fighting for and the only comments from his supporters are congratulating him!

    He is a schmuk. He is facing literally hundreds of law suits from his employes for a whole range of labour transgressions, he is so toxic that no American bank will lend to him, he has bankrupted himself multiple times launched a number of terrible business that failed almost immediatley and that doesnt even include Trump University which would best be described as an extortion racket.

    Dont insinuate that I support Clinton, I dont, she's an awful candidate and represents everything wrong with anglo-american politics but holding Trump as some sort of champion of the working class isnt funny, it's ludicrous, even more ludicrous than when Johnson, Gove and Farage were held up as the same in the UK.

    Trump voters say they like straight talking, how about I do some now. Lets call a brick a brick; Trump voters are total morons, equivalent to the turkeys who voted for christmas.
    Trumps been in business 30 or 40 yrs. and probably paid more in taxes than you or I will ever make.
    Do you know anyone who pays more in taxes than they have to? If you do I would distance myself from them.
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    (Original post by unprinted)
    Clearly the charitable fraud, the business fraud, the racism, the misogyny, the being so obsessed with one woman's weight in the 90s that he stays up all night tweeting about it, and the rest are fine with Republicans.

    It is, of course, the party that nominated someone for Vice President without having any clue at all as to what she was like.
    Crowned Miss Universe than gains 60lbs. in a year and don't they get a million bucks or so for winning. Clearly, she should have to return any money received. I can't think of a better example of stupid.

    When has Trump done anything racist?

    What makes you think Trump hates women? He just treats them as equal,not weaker. I would think that being treated as an equal would be welcomed. I guess some women can't take it.
 
 
 
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