Struggling with homophobia in the church.

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    (Original post by Toughtee)
    What statistics? I don't think anyone is denying that sexuality at least has some amount of a social/economic factor.



    So marriage/love is only for child rearing? With this argument, infertile people and people who simply don't want children should be banned from being married or loving people.

    Okay. Point taken maybe I went a little overboard in the people denying that it has social/economic factors. However I should have specified that Black people make up most of the non-white population.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics...nmate_race.jsp

    As for the homosexuality I have two sources. My mother is a nurse and she worked on the male ward and she said that most of those suffering from sexual diseases were homosexuals.
    http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/std.htm
    https://www.stdcheck.com/blog/lgbt-std-statistics/
    Good read...


    As a Christian one of the functions of the family is to procreate. That is the will of God for the family. There are many accounts in the bible that shows infertility and the women becoming fertile. Abraham and Sarah. Jacob and Rachel. Elkanah and Hannah. And in the new testament Zechariah and Elizabeth and a few others. And each time it was because of their faith they received children. I mean Abraham and Sarah it seemed impossible...but it happened! So no, I am not saying that people who are infertile shouldn't get married.
    However people who don't want children..xD. You know that depends on the will of God for your life. I mean...his will for human kind is to procreate. However you have a choice to do his will or not. God tells us what he wants for our lives through the bible and you have a choice to fulfill his will or not but you do that at your own risk dude. xD
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    (Original post by medic997)
    As a Christian one of the functions of the family is to procreate. That is the will of God for the family. There are many accounts in the bible that shows infertility and the women becoming fertile. Abraham and Sarah. Jacob and Rachel. Elkanah and Hannah. And in the new testament Zechariah and Elizabeth and a few others. And each time it was because of their faith they received children. I mean Abraham and Sarah it seemed impossible...but it happened! So no, I am not saying that people who are infertile shouldn't get married.
    Do you have any evidence outside of religious scriptures of an event where someone who was infertile became fertile?

    (Original post by medic997)
    However people who don't want children..xD. You know that depends on the will of God for your life. I mean...his will for human kind is to have procreate. However you have a choice to do his will or not. God tells us what he wants for our lives through the bible and you have a choice to fulfill his will or not but you do that at your own risk dude. xD
    How would you go about enforcing a ban on people who don't want children getting married?
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    (Original post by BethanyBrooks)
    Okay, where do I start with this...



    Actually, it's not. If we're talking about Christianity (which we are) homosexuality is only mentioned and condoned in the OLD TESTAMENT, otherwise known as the 'Old Law'. We do not live our Christian life by following the Old Testament Law. The Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear. The Apostle Paul wrote it in Galatians:
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (Galatians 3:10)

    Which means, that when people start quoting Leviticus at you because you are/ support LGBT+, then they are following the Old Law, which is not being Christian. Being Christian is, to quote the book of Matthew:
    Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    So, OP, your stand-in preacher is not a true christian if he is quoting Leviticus at you, and if he does, you can quote Galatians straight back at him.
    Also, for others who have found passages from Romans and so on, bear in mind that the Bible has been re-translanted over and over and over and over again. The true meaning from the original Greek or Hebrew has been lost (unless you read the very original letters and books). The word that we have interpreted as 'homosexuals/homosexuality' used to be translated to 'masturbators/masurbating'. It's just translated to what seems to be the biggest evil of the time.

    The good thing about believing in God is that he loves us, irrespective of who you are, or what you do. It's not 'God loves you if you're blond, have green eyes, are straight and are good at sports.' God loves you, FOR YOU. He loves you for all the quirks that make you different, for your sexuality, for your mind. We are all God's Children.
    Wouldn't you say that masturbating is technically same sex relations?
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    (Original post by Toughtee)
    Do you have any evidence outside of religious scriptures of an event where someone who was infertile became fertile?


    How would you go about enforcing a ban on people who don't want children getting married?

    I'm guessing you want something more recent xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU0NJCtKY3Y
    They were infertile and had a baby about 3 years ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_98O9isY14E
    Two years ago became pregnant naturaly no fertility treatments.


    I don't plan on enforcing a ban. God has given us free will to go against his will or go with it. However if you choose to go outside of his will he is no longer responsible for what happens to you because you made a choice
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    (Original post by BethanyBrooks)
    Okay, where do I start with this...



    Actually, it's not. If we're talking about Christianity (which we are) homosexuality is only mentioned and condoned in the OLD TESTAMENT, otherwise known as the 'Old Law'. We do not live our Christian life by following the Old Testament Law. The Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear. The Apostle Paul wrote it in Galatians:
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (Galatians 3:10)

    Which means, that when people start quoting Leviticus at you because you are/ support LGBT+, then they are following the Old Law, which is not being Christian. Being Christian is, to quote the book of Matthew:
    Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    So, OP, your stand-in preacher is not a true christian if he is quoting Leviticus at you, and if he does, you can quote Galatians straight back at him.
    Also, for others who have found passages from Romans and so on, bear in mind that the Bible has been re-translanted over and over and over and over again. The true meaning from the original Greek or Hebrew has been lost (unless you read the very original letters and books). The word that we have interpreted as 'homosexuals/homosexuality' used to be translated to 'masturbators/masurbating'. It's just translated to what seems to be the biggest evil of the time.

    The good thing about believing in God is that he loves us, irrespective of who you are, or what you do. It's not 'God loves you if you're blond, have green eyes, are straight and are good at sports.' God loves you, FOR YOU. He loves you for all the quirks that make you different, for your sexuality, for your mind. We are all God's Children.
    You don't know what you're saying... That's not what the text means! The true meaning has been lost? Masturbators? What?

    Old Testament law? A complete misunderstanding of laws in the bible. It's not true. Did you know that those two commandments Jesus taught were actually quotes from the Old Testament?

    So many mistakes in what you said, but let me ask you one question to encourage you to go and study this topic honestly. In the New Testament, the reader is instructed to "flee sexual immorality" or similar many times. How does one define "sexual immorality"? How did the people who Paul/Jesus were writing/preaching to find out what sexual immorality was? Where would they go to find out?
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    (Original post by Pride)
    You don't know what you're saying... That's not what the text means! The true meaning has been lost? Masturbators? What?

    Old Testament law? A complete misunderstanding of laws in the bible. It's not true. Did you know that those two commandments Jesus taught were actually quotes from the Old Testament?

    So many mistakes in what you said, but let me ask you one question to encourage you to go and study this topic honestly. In the New Testament, the reader is instructed to "flee sexual immorality" or similar many times. How does one define "sexual immorality"? How did the people who Paul/Jesus were writing/preaching to find out what sexual immorality was? Where would they go to find out?
    1 Corinthians 6:18 to be exact. And for real...if Paul was saying FLEE from it that should say something.
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    (Original post by BethanyBrooks)
    Okay, where do I start with this...



    Actually, it's not. If we're talking about Christianity (which we are) homosexuality is only mentioned and condoned in the OLD TESTAMENT, otherwise known as the 'Old Law'. We do not live our Christian life by following the Old Testament Law. The Apostle Paul makes this abundantly clear. The Apostle Paul wrote it in Galatians:
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (Galatians 3:10)

    Which means, that when people start quoting Leviticus at you because you are/ support LGBT+, then they are following the Old Law, which is not being Christian. Being Christian is, to quote the book of Matthew:
    Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    So, OP, your stand-in preacher is not a true christian if he is quoting Leviticus at you, and if he does, you can quote Galatians straight back at him.
    Also, for others who have found passages from Romans and so on, bear in mind that the Bible has been re-translanted over and over and over and over again. The true meaning from the original Greek or Hebrew has been lost (unless you read the very original letters and books). The word that we have interpreted as 'homosexuals/homosexuality' used to be translated to 'masturbators/masurbating'. It's just translated to what seems to be the biggest evil of the time.

    The good thing about believing in God is that he loves us, irrespective of who you are, or what you do. It's not 'God loves you if you're blond, have green eyes, are straight and are good at sports.' God loves you, FOR YOU. He loves you for all the quirks that make you different, for your sexuality, for your mind. We are all God's Children.
    You know what is the old law? The rituals that the Israelites had to do for God to forgive their sins.(Animal sacrifices so the blood of the animal would be used to wash their sin) The rules as to what is right and wrong stays the same. The new Law in the new testament is that Jesus came to die on the cross and shed HIS blood in the for our sins and that we may be saved. Therefore whoever is observing the old law (using rituals to be forgiven) will be under a curse because they do not accept Jesus as their savior.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BGO9Mmd_cU
    This video by The Bible Project puts it in perspective xD
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    (Original post by medic997)
    You know what is the old law?
    There is no "old law". There are commandments which you obviously don't know.
    The rituals that the Israelites had to do for God to forgive their sins.(Animal sacrifices
    Nope. The essence of sacrifice is to bring a person closer to God.
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    You updated your post so I thought I'd respond accordingly.

    (Original post by medic997)
    Okay. Point taken maybe I went a little overboard in the people denying that it has social/economic factors. However I should have specified that Black people make up most of the non-white population.

    https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics...nmate_race.jsp
    That's okay! The most important take away is that sexuality is not a choice.

    (Original post by medic997)
    As for the homosexuality I have two sources. My mother is a nurse and she worked on the male ward and she said that most of those suffering from sexual diseases were homosexuals.
    http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/std.htm
    https://www.stdcheck.com/blog/lgbt-std-statistics/
    Good read...
    The high number of AIDs cases amongst the gay community is almost definitely due to a lack of education and stigma around protection. So a little investment into teaching the homosexual community sex education (which many charities are currently doing) should reduce this problem greatly.
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    (Original post by medic997)
    I'm guessing you want something more recent xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU0NJCtKY3Y
    They were infertile and had a baby about 3 years ago.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_98O9isY14E
    Two years ago became pregnant naturaly no fertility treatments.
    So I had a look at these videos, but whilst they're heartwarming and I'm glad to see them so happy they don't actually make any indication that they prayed to become fertile. So what makes you think that God was involved?

    (Original post by medic997)
    I don't plan on enforcing a ban. God has given us free will to go against his will or go with it. However if you choose to go outside of his will he is no longer responsible for what happens to you because you made a choice
    So you're saying that if there was a vote in this country regarding the legality of same sex marriage you would vote to keep it legal, to preserve people's free will?
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    (Original post by Toughtee)
    You updated your post so I thought I'd respond accordingly.

    That's okay! The most important take away is that sexuality is not a choice.


    The high number of AIDs cases amongst the gay community is almost definitely due to a lack of education and stigma around protection. So a little investment into teaching the homosexual community sex education (which many charities are currently doing) should reduce this problem greatly.

    Dude...xD Are you saying that black people are in jail because its not their choice?...because they were born into poverty, "born" with a mindset...? And then linking this example to people "choosing" their sexuality? I beg to differ. Those black men although born into poverty and surrounded by influences that can incubate a certain mindset...chose prison. They had a choice to change their mindsets and choose to live rightly if they were introduced to the right way. No one has an excuse or pass once given an opportunity to better themselves through education. And in the western world most are given access to education.

    The AIDs thing....:

    That may be so. But are they willing to be told what they can and cannot do in their bedrooms? I mean there are other illnesses that are common in both heterosexuals and homosexuals(mainly men)

    http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/mal...xual-behavior/

    Read Section A.

    Yes. I do realize that these practices can be done by heterosexuals as well. My mother has seen patients both heterosexual and homosexual with some of these illnesses. However, homosexuals are limited in what they can do. Its not only about unprotected sex. It is also what sex practices does to the actual physiology of the body. Maybe there is a right way of having sex that doesn't have so much complications?

    I think that we're straying faaaaaar away from what this thread was originally intended to be dude.
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    (Original post by Toughtee)
    So I had a look at these videos, but whilst they're heartwarming and I'm glad to see them so happy they don't actually make any indication that they prayed to become fertile. So what makes you think that God was involved?



    So you're saying that if there was a vote in this country regarding the legality of same sex marriage you would vote to keep it legal, to preserve people's free will?
    They're Mormons? I can give you another.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIyJeXTBkg
    Maybe I should've started with this one.

    And as to your second question.
    Nope. I wouldn't. Because I would only support what God says is right.
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    Gay's don't belong in the church, its against the fundementals of Christianity.
    Go repent you unclean sinner
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    (Original post by admonit)
    There is no "old law". There are commandments which you obviously don't know.

    Nope. The essence of sacrifice is to bring a person closer to God.
    Dude. xD Did you watch the video I linked? In the first 5 books of the bible there are 613 commands or laws. The first 5 books of the bible is called Torah in Hebrew. Torah is translated to The Law in English. therefore the 613 commands found in the Torah is the law including the 10 commandments.
    Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
    Therefore the law is all well and good. Its just that Jesus came so that it would be much easier for us to follow the Law. Dude..I can't explain myself without going into like a full on essay LOL!
    I'll just insert the video here again so that maybe you can get where I'm going with this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BGO9Mmd_cU

    As for the sacrifices since it will take me ages to type a reply I would just link a nice short video on it for you. That is the big picture, to bring a person closer to God, but it has a deeper purpose for the person as well.
    The video explains it better xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_OlRWGLdnw
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    (Original post by Lay-Z)
    Gay's don't belong in the church, its against the fundementals of Christianity.
    Go repent you unclean sinner
    How will they know the truth if they don't come to church? How will they be saved if they don't know the truth?
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    (Original post by medic997)
    Dude...xD Are you saying that black people are in jail because its not their choice?...because they were born into poverty, "born" with a mindset...? And then linking this example to people "choosing" their sexuality? I beg to differ. Those black men although born into poverty and surrounded by influences that can incubate a certain mindset...chose prison. They had a choice to change their mindsets and choose to live rightly if they were introduced to the right way. No one has an excuse or pass once given an opportunity to better themselves through education. And in the western world most are given access to education.
    No I'm not saying that. I don't know enough about the issues to make an informed comment on it. But if (as I assume) that there is a choice component in going to prison, the analogy is inaccurate as there is no evidence to suggest homosexuality is in any way a choice.

    (Original post by medic997)
    The AIDs thing....:

    That may be so. But are they willing to be told what they can and cannot do in their bedrooms? I mean there are other illnesses that are common in both heterosexuals and homosexuals(mainly men)

    http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/mal...xual-behavior/

    Read Section A.

    Yes. I do realize that these practices can be done by heterosexuals as well. My mother has seen patients both heterosexual and homosexual with some of these illnesses. However, homosexuals are limited in what they can do. Its not only about unprotected sex. It is also what sex practices does to the actual physiology of the body. Maybe there is a right way of having sex that doesn't have so much complications?

    I think that we're straying faaaaaar away from what this thread was originally intended to be dude.
    They wouldn't be told what they can or can't do, they'd be given advice on how to stay safe and prevent the spread of diseases. As for the article, I'm highly sceptical of the so called "science" that they tried to state. And what's more I am extremely unwilling to listen to a website that supports the barbaric process of "gay conversion therapy".

    There was ways gay people can have sex that reduces the risk of health issue near to the level of straight people. And besides, most of this is about gay people, what about lesbians?
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    (Original post by medic997)
    They're Mormons? I can give you another.
    Oh okay, I must have missed that! So do you believe the Mormon God is the same as your God?

    (Original post by medic997)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIyJeXTBkg
    Maybe I should've started with this one.
    The video says that her doctor said she "might" have PCOS, then they ceased medical treatment and prayed instead. It could be a miracle, but then it could be that she didn't actually have it, or got pregnant anyway?

    (Original post by medic997)
    And as to your second question.
    Nope. I wouldn't. Because I would only support what God says is right.
    So why would you support a ban of same sex marriage but not a ban on marrying if you don't want children, when you think they're both against God's will?
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    (Original post by medic997)
    They're Mormons? I can give you another.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIyJeXTBkg
    Maybe I should've started with this one.

    And as to your second question.
    Nope. I wouldn't. Because I would only support what God says is right.
    How do you know what your God deems to be right?
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    (Original post by medic997)
    I agree with everything you just said. To give another analogy...as I am a black person I can say that the statistics of black men in the U.S. making up most of the prison population is correct. The lifestyle of some black people, poverty, mindset and so on contributes to it. Therefore the statistics of what correlates to homosexuality is is also from a contribution to the lifestyle.
    Yes the bible talks about love and we should love one another. But that doesn't take away from what the bible says about homosexuality is the biblical truth.
    Genesis 1:27-28 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Godblessedthem; and Godsaidto them, "Be fruitfuland multiply,and fillthe earth,and subdueit; and ruleover the fishof the seaand over the birdsof the skyand over everylivingthingthat moveson the earth."
    Do you see the first command that God gave human kind? Be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality naturally breaks that first command. Also Pride I've read all your posts. You give a decent and stable argument.
    Well ok leaving aside the fact that genesis is fiction..... Don't you think that that command had a lot more relevance when the population was in the hundreds of thousands.We are pretty rapidly approaching 9 billion and over half the wealth on this planet is owned by 1% of people.The very last thing we need is more procreation.There are plenty of kids who would love someone to adopt them.
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    (Original post by Toughtee)
    No I'm not saying that. I don't know enough about the issues to make an informed comment on it. But if (as I assume) that there is a choice component in going to prison, the analogy is inaccurate as there is no evidence to suggest homosexuality is in any way a choice.



    They wouldn't be told what they can or can't do, they'd be given advice on how to stay safe and prevent the spread of diseases. As for the article, I'm highly sceptical of the so called "science" that they tried to state. And what's more I am extremely unwilling to listen to a website that supports the barbaric process of "gay conversion therapy".

    There was ways gay people can have sex that reduces the risk of health issue near to the level of straight people. And besides, most of this is about gay people, what about lesbians?
    Well...if you feel that way, I guess you'd have to go with what you feel is right. I think our sexuality is a choice. Since God gave us free will to do what he wants or do what we want. At the end of the day you have to choose what you can live with xD

    As for the skepticism towards the website...you can check out the references below to check if their science is correct. I am indifferent towards gay conversion therapy, so I have no comment on that.
 
 
 
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