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Trump & Brexit is what happens when you smear all who disagree as racist watch

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    Summary of why and how Trump won.

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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    I didn't say anything about poor people thank you very much! I said uneducated bigots two very different things i.e. people who don't understand the issues and vote with their gut and on the basis of him opening is big fat gob and coming out with sexist/racist things they probably resonate with whilst discarding any of the real issues and not looking into his policy on those because why would they when he said he wants to get rid of all the muslims and they hate the bloody muslims and the mexicans well they hate them too so he's said these thing must = man after my own heart... except when he pulls all the state welfare they receive or doesn't bother to help social care problems/poverty etc, then they're like ughhhh so racist doesn't = good person willing to fight for our rights as trailer trash? No sweetie it means he'll be fighting for the rights of big corps that don't give two shits about you, but you can still sit at home and be racist if you like he'll never take that away from you!
    shhh calm dowwwwn :console:

    it's over. No amount of bickering will change that.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    I didn't claim it to be an educated decision, I do say it was a desperate, angry and fearful one, a situation not helped by faux left wing bullies. We seem to agree on some of that?

    Liberalism is typically the best way to address those issues you highlighted and is why I consider myself one. It is also why I am so angry the left has become so iliiberal and nauseatingly smug.

    The problem with setting up the premise of minorities against a white majority is it assumes those within the majority weild some kind of power. The left has done this for too long, dismissing all of their concerns, and the right has scooped them up like turds on a street corner.

    It is too easy to blame the right and shout racism, we alsoneed to look in the mirror as we are losing every election miserably to more and more extreme expressions of that frustration.
    I don't know about them being faux left bullies I think the people shouting loudly and aggressively in response on the left are doing so with good intentions and speaking for the marginalised as they see it which you can't fault them for! And you really can't uncover a similar pure intention from the opposing side. They are driven by power at the expense of others and you have to expect anger from the opposition in those circumstances. That doesn't mean there doesn't need to be a dramatic shift in direction to the major political/societal problems at the moment noone can deny that. Anger and aggression from either side are not going to solve them. The UK is a liberal country that has not shielded it from the rise of right wing extremism we have to recognise that the solutions are complex and noone denies that everyone must be heard in order to effect change with the least casualties but that doesn't mean left wing activism is the problem!!!
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    shhh calm dowwwwn :console:

    it's over. No amount of bickering will change that.
    don't worry I'm fine I didn't do anything silly like staying up all night to watch the results come in I'm calm.
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    don't worry I'm fine I didn't do anything silly like staying up all night to watch the results come in I'm calm.
    How do you know I stayed up all night if you didn't stay up all night? ...
    Anyway those are almost my normal sleeping hours anyway. I was among millions of people who couldn't sleep and many people participated in my thread, so don't start being rude to me when I'm just tryna calm you down.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    How do you know I stayed up all night if you didn't stay up all night? ...
    Anyway those are almost my normal sleeping hours anyway. I was among millions of people who couldn't sleep and many people participated in my thread, so don't start being rude to me when I'm just tryna calm you down.
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I wasn't being rude to you and I had no idea you stayed up all night... Cos... I wasn't here!

    Why are you trying to calm me down?
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    yes that is ********, he is the establishment
    That is hardly the jist of the social issues which envigorated a protest vote though. There was anger towards islam and mexican immigrants for example. That surely can't be headed under simply flipping off the establishment

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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I wasn't being rude to you and I had no idea you stayed up all night... Cos... I wasn't here!

    Why are you trying to calm me down?
    What's the point in being angry? Anger won't change the results, don't stress yourself, just stay strong so you don't suffer when Trump starts making bigly stupid moves
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    (Original post by JohnGreek)
    I agree, as someone who was vocally for Remain and Hillary.

    When you go out and call half of Trump's voterbase "a basket of deplorables", regardless of how accurate that may be, you are showing a degree of classism and arrogance that we haven't seen since the Victorian era. Don't be surprised when those "deplorables" go out and vote against you.
    Of course in the end those on lower incomes tended to vote for the Dems and those on higher tended to vote for the Reps so it wasn't as much of a class issue as we might imagine Brexit was.
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    I don't know about them being faux left bullies I think the people shouting loudly and aggressively in response on the left are doing so with good intentions and speaking for the marginalised as they see it which you can't fault them for! And you really can't uncover a similar pure intention from the opposing side. They are driven by power at the expense of others and you have to expect anger from the opposition in those circumstances. That doesn't mean there doesn't need to be a dramatic shift in direction to the major political/societal problems at the moment noone can deny that. Anger and aggression from either side are not going to solve them. The UK is a liberal country that has not shielded it from the rise of right wing extremism we have to recognise that the solutions are complex and noone denies that everyone must be heard in order to effect change with the least casualties but that doesn't mean left wing activism is the problem!!!
    It would not take you very long to find examples, both silly and consequential, where the indulgences, and moral cowardice, of the left would melt your face. It is easy to seperate that from liberalism itself and I will continue to speak out against bigotry.

    You said you can't uncover pure intention yet you claimed to understand their intentions specifically and also the intentions of those pushing back. I would advise you to not assume either.

    If we want to marginalise the far right, occupy the conversation that has been abandoned by liberal leaders and voices, or at the very least stop silencing those that re trying to do that.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    What's the point in being angry? Anger won't change the results, don't stress yourself, just stay strong so you don't suffer when Trump starts making bigly stupid moves
    I've honestly taken little interest in it I just know the issues and I'm free right now so I'm having a little go at the debate. Stop policing me get some sleep.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Of course in the end those on lower incomes tended to vote for the Dems and those on higher tended to vote for the Reps so it wasn't as much of a class issue as we might imagine Brexit was.
    Unfortunately those on lower incomes voted Trump. The world has changed and the left is not responding to that change.
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    Not sure what these counter-arguments are/were?

    Shouting "Brexit means Brexit" and "we'll make America great again" are hardly arguments.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    Unfortunately those on lower incomes voted Trump. The world has changed and the left is not responding to that change.
    People on lower incomes did vote for Trump, bot more voted for Hillary - at least according to the NY Times exit poll.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    People on lower incomes did vote for Trump, bot more voted for Hillary - at least according to the NY Times exit poll.
    That goes against the polling I saw. I think we can agree on the fact that the left are losing the working classes at an alarming rate though?
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    The assumptions you made within the first few words are breathtaking. Listen to yourself! How do you know this?

    I am argueing, as I said in the OP, that we as liberals stop labelling everyone we disgaree with as bigots. There are genuine problems with immigration, there are genuine issues with Islamism, there are genuinely problems of unemployment and poverty within white working class communities. You don't need to agree with every conclusion, but you should listen. Either that or it will fester, harden and lead to where we are today.

    None of this requires you to turn a blind eye to bigotry. I certainly won't be.
    Nobody is suggesting you turn a blind eye to bigotry. But if you class as 'Bigotry' those things that are not, or try to ascribe racism as a root cause where there is none, don't be surprised if you create a backlash that you don't like.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    That goes against the polling I saw. I think we can agree on the fact that the left are losing the working classes at an alarming rate though?
    I really think that's more of an issue in the UK than the US. But yes there is a general swing, regardless of class, towards right-populism which we should be worried about.
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    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    Nobody is suggesting you turn a blind eye to bigotry. But if you class as 'Bigotry' those things that are not, or try to ascribe racism as a root cause where there is none, don't be surprised if you create a backlash that you don't like.
    I completely agree, I think you misread the thread as this has been central to my premise.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I really think that's more of an issue in the UK than the US. But yes there is a general swing, regardless of class, towards right-populism which we should be worried about.
    I disagree and agree entirely.
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    (Original post by Damien96)
    Oh OK, thanks for telling me what it is I and tens of millions of voters think. I wish I had your psychic ability, it would save me so much trouble discussing what's actually been said.
    Look who is the arrogant, condescending, sarcastic guy now.

    Lol'd at you and your thread. Bye now.
 
 
 
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