The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2009 Watch

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Paulwhy
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#101
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#101
(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
wheres the paul league table?> cant find it
see post 1 of this thread.
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prospectivEEconomist
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#102
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#102
whoa durham is ranked 4th in econ according to you paul?>
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Paulwhy
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#103
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#103
(Original post by TSRreader)
I had been a bit skeptical on thoughts that top academics can produce top notch students. But apparently certain Essex undergraduates, who Paulwhy met, weren't well prepared for graduate school.
Yes if you are wanting to go top a good postgrdauate economics don't (if you have the choice!) go to a ABB uni. for undergraduate.

At Essex they just don't have the option to teach the same material as is taught at a top 5 uni. (At essex 41% studnets in 05/06 tariff was below 320!). A lot of the students would not have the skills or ability to deal with it
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Paulwhy
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#104
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#104
(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
whoa durham is ranked 4th in econ according to you paul?>
Maybe the table is saying that.
But I am not saying that ( I am sticking with a top 5 of (LSE,Cambridge/Oxford,UCL/Warwick)).

i.e. the table is crude (unis sorted by typical offer by avergae tariff)

so when some unis go for typical offers above (e.g. Royal Holloway Essex East Anglia Leicester Reading) or below (e.g. Warwick) the level they could clear at it does not work that well.

If Warwick made AAA offers then the Top5 unis would be in 5 of the 6 positions.

Currently positions 4 to 6 go:
Durham (462), UCL(459, Notts(453)
If I had done it earlier using the 05/06 unistat data it would have gone:
UCL(480), Notts(470), Durham (460)

If a weighted avergae of tariffs from different years was used then that might produce more robust results. But there would a loss of clarity in terms of where the sort criterea came from and I don't know what weights to use.

But generally it works quite well. and for somewhere like Southampton that is in the middle of the list of AAB unis it is not a terrible measure.

And in terms of why you should be interested in uni econ departments (what offer will they make and what kind of characteristics successful candidates have) it is pretty successful.
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prospectivEEconomist
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#105
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#105
you should compile your own league table . Your methodology seems much better than the ****ty one used by the times (didn't expect much from the exeter team who compiled it tbh :P)
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Paulwhy
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#106
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#106
(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
you should compile your own league table . Your methodology seems much better than the ****ty one used by the times (didn't expect much from the exeter team who compiled it tbh :P)
Thank you

I also have issues with the (Times/Gaurdian/Independent) tables:
1)They compare different sorts of information (e.g.what weights do you use).
2) quality of the data.
i) What is a Graduate Job? What % of students do unis know the destination of?
ii)Is students satisfaction comparable between uni? e.g surely students at different unis have wildly different expectations!

But one thing that is measured centrally and that is well define is the qualifications of the successful candidates.
And we might expect that in general:
i)Better unis to make higher offers.
ii) Better unis to attract better qualified students

Hence the Paul Table.
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Paulwhy
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#107
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#107
(Original post by Paulwhy)
Any suggestions of a new name for this thread?
"Economics Entry Requirements 2009" maybe?
How about "Paul's Economics League Table"?
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prospectivEEconomist
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#108
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#108
sounds good mate! better than the entry req one
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Paulwhy
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#109
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#109
(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
sounds good mate! better than the entry req one
Is it also better than the current title "Economics offers and average tariff points for all universities"?
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Mustard-man
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#110
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#110
Economic Paul's Definitive League Table :yes:
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silent ninja
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#111
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#111
hmm... "Paul's Economics League Table" sounds too personal to me rather than an objective source of information (which it is).
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Paulwhy
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#112
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#112
(Original post by silent ninja)
hmm... "Paul's Economics League Table" sounds too personal to me rather than an objective source of information (which it is).
Yes it is a personal name.
And it may be overly personal
But I feel personal about the table. And I have decided what sort criterea to use and how to break up the overly large AAA, AAB, ABB groups.

Further all the other league tables have names:
Times "Good Univeisity Guide"
Indepedent: "The Complete University Guide"
Gaurdian "University Guide"
So why can't I have one?
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Paulwhy
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#113
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#113
I have now broken the BBB unis up:

BBB (300 Points) (Less than 20% of students have less than 280 points: Edinburgh 2%, Sheffield 6%, Liverpool 0%, Queen Mary 10%, Queen's Belfast 0%)
Edinburgh BBB M*p 442
Sheffield BBB-BBbb 369
Liverpool BBB 361

Queen Mary 300 M*M**p 351
Queen's Belfast BBB-BBCb 347

BBB (300 Points) (Atleast 20% of students below 280 points: City 20%, Surrey 32%, Kent 36%, Swansea unreported)
City BBB 333
Surrey BBB 286
Kent 300 (BB) 286
Swansea 300 278



and one the same with the CCC ones:
CCC (240 Points) (less than 20% of students below 240 points: Dundee 5%, Aberdeeen 15%, Ulster 15%
Dundee CCC 300
Aberdeen CCC or aabb 292
Ulster 240 (160) 287

CCC (240 Points) (Atleast 20% of students below 240 points: Manchester Met 41%, Salford Unreported, Portsmouth 25%, Nottingham Trent 40%, Hertfordshire 57%, Bradford unreported
Manchester Met 240 (140) 274
Salford 240-260 273I
Portsmouth 240 (2 A-levels) 240
Nottingham Trent 240 (AA) 229
Hertfordshire 240 (200 if 2 A-levels) 228
Bradford 240-260 (160) 207


Concept being to attempt to separate out those unis accepting a lot of students with tariffs below their typical offer. It is the 05/06 unistat data again. Unlike with the AAA and AAB unis the black unis are split between the two groups. This though maybe aesthetically unpleasing does shows the value of using statistics more sophisticated than just a mean.
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Paulwhy
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#114
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#114
(Original post by Mustard-man)
Economic Paul's Definitive League Table :yes:
Maybe definitive is too strong a claim

I was thinking today of maybe putting the word economical in it.
(In reference to the concepts of supply, demand and market clearing it uses).
So what about.
"Paul's economical economics league table."

or do you prefer:
"Paul's economical league table."
?
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prospectivEEconomist
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#115
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#115
Economics league table - Version 1.1
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Wizardtb
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#116
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#116
The Dysmal Science of Naming an Economics League table that is impartial, yet sensitively personal league table extraordinare! Oh, and economical.

Though, "Paul's Definitive Economics League Table" has my vote.
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Paulwhy
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#117
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#117
I think it should be:
"Paul's xxxxxxx economics league table"

I want an adjective that is better than economical.
It needs to refer to the philisophy and ethos of the methodology.
Maybe marketised? market determined? market driven? market influenced?

I think my new favourite is:
"Paul's market determined economics league table"
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Paulwhy
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#118
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#118
Oh and I added in some documentation on the excel version:
Before I get to the documentation on the main table I would like to point out that the excel spreadsheet contains the data below but with a few extras:
Sheet 1) As below plus some website links and some Work In progress columns e.g. on Further Maths , excluded subjects and applicants per place.
Sheet 2) Contains data on clearing (used in the Economics Clearing 2008 thread).

Most of the information on Sheet 3 and 4 is not displayed below. And I have used the information to form the separate AAA,AAB,BBB and CCC groups. So it is really worth a look.
Sheet 3) What % of students came in each of 10 tariff categories
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prospectivEEconomist
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#119
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#119
LOL market determined sounds a bit weird tbh..go for like..erm..."alternative" or"independent"?
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Paulwhy
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#120
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#120
Also I am thinking of putting UCL into the top AAA group.
Then it would be with the other AAA unis with no AAB-ness.
(i.e. Durham was AAB in 2008 and Notts accepts AABB candidates).

Then unis would not be in the Times 07/08 mean order:
Durham(462),UCL(459), Notts(453)

But I don't think that is a disaster. i.e. all the other 3 sources have UCL highest of the 3:
unistat 05/06
UCL (480), Notts (470),Durham (460),
Gaurdian:
UCL(464), Durham (462), Notts (456)
Independent:
UCL(465), Durham (463), Notts(457)
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