Stop the carrying of knives in Britain Watch

burningnun
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#101
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#101
(Original post by Elipsis)
I think the 'the knife might have a use' argument is the crappest argument to use against this petition. No court in this country will send down somebody who has a legitimate reason to carry a knife, they never have done and they never will.
What exactly is a "legitimate reason?" My reason might be that I might need it at some point in the vague future, which is a perfectly good reason to me, but may not be to the police.

Even if I didn't get "sent down," I would rather not be in court in the first place. It's time consuming and not fun. I would also rather the taxpayer didn't have to pay magistrates to inject some common sense into a nonsensical law every time someone is arrested for carrying a useful tool.

If they were so strong in the first place they wouldn't have needed a weapon.
Cool, how strong do I need to get before I reach this mythical level of strength (maybe I won't need a knife to cut stuff either at this point)? I total a little less than 400 kg unequipped at the moment, at 75 kg.
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1721
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#102
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#102
(Original post by burningnun)
They will note that people are idiots if they sign the petition. It's not naive to suggest that someone doing and saying moronic things is, in fact, a moron. I think he's a moron myself.
sure they will they will see millions of people who dont like knife crime.

so what do you suggest we do sweet nothing?
let the gang culture escalate till everyone is stabbing everyone?
good idea.
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34253
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#103
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#103
(Original post by HannahLouise02)
I understand the majority of your opinions. I just think something has to be done. It's just becoming too regular that this happens. I really don't know what would be best to combat it, but i just thought it was a step in the right direction. I just don't want to see this happening again and again.
The human tendancy to go heavy handed when it's threatened has been proven time and again to fail; look at America where they are projected to have almost half of their population in prison by 2050, crime doesn't really ever go down with the use of prison until you get to those sorts of figures. I think some well respected community leaders need to be given stab vests and they should patrol at nights on rotation myself; the fact that they're citizens also means they aren't subject to not being allowed to kick the crap out of youths found with knives. If i'd come home with my head kicked in because i'd been carrying a knife my parents would have finished me off.
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34253
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#104
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#104
(Original post by burningnun)
What exactly is a "legitimate reason?" My reason might be that I might need it at some point in the vague future, which is a perfectly good reason to me, but may not be to the police.

Even if I didn't get "sent down," I would rather not be in court in the first place. It's time consuming and not fun. I would also rather the taxpayer didn't have to pay magistrates to inject some common sense into a nonsensical law every time someone is arrested for carrying a useful tool.
It's largely to do how you are holding it on your person, if you have an unsheathed kitchen knife down your trousers it's highly unlikely your carrying it for future use. If you had a legitimate reason it wouldn't go to trial, are you stupid or what? More often than not it would be dealt with on the spot. Either way you don't need a blade bigger than a few inches in every day life and it has no reason to leave your house unless you use it for work or are going camping.
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Angel_Cake
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#105
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#105
(Original post by HannahLouise02)
There is an e-petition going to ban the carrying of knives and impose a 5 year prison sentence on anyone found with a knife.

The petition deadline is today. Please sign it.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ban-knives/

This is all in reaction to the 17th teenager being killed in the capital this year. It has to stop.

Thanks.
Do you have any idea how much it would cost to lock up everyone found with a knife for five years?! I hate to sound like my dad, but maybe if you were a taxpayer you'd be a little more realistic.
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rosemkate
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#106
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#106
(Original post by HannahLouise02)
I understand the majority of your opinions. I just think something has to be done. It's just becoming too regular that this happens. I really don't know what would be best to combat it, but i just thought it was a step in the right direction. I just don't want to see this happening again and again.

something needs to be done but prison is not the answer. the government needs to sort out the causes, they need stop people getting into gang culture in the first place.
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1721
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#107
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#107
(Original post by Angel_Cake)
Do you have any idea how much it would cost to lock up everyone found with a knife for five years?! I hate to sound like my dad, but maybe if you were a taxpayer you'd be a little more realistic.
i seriously doubt it will be a law....ever. doesnt detract from the fact soemthing should be done.
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burningnun
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#108
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#108
(Original post by Elipsis)
It's largely to do how you are holding it on your person, if you have an unsheathed kitchen knife down your trousers it's highly unlikely your carrying it for future use. If you had a legitimate reason it wouldn't go to trial, are you stupid or what?
Not stupid enough to carry blades down my trousers actually, because I keep stuff there that I would rather didn't get cut. But just about any knife I carry will be unsheathed because I don't own a sheath for any of my knives. If for some reason I needed a kitchen knife (for example if I were on my way to a kitchen) it would certainly be unsheathed. You still haven't defined a "legitimate reason" in light of my example, but you did manage a thinly veiled ad hominem. Keep up the excellent work.

More often than not it would be dealt with on the spot. Either way you don't need a blade bigger than a few inches in every day life and it has no reason to leave your house unless you use it for work or are going camping.
Or if you need/want to cut something outside your house. Or if someone wants to borrow your knife, to cut something in their house.

It's not THAT far fetched.
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gyrase
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#109
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#109
Locking up everyone found with a knife isnt the answer. Only recently did we have a shortage of prison cells so I doubt it would bode well with the law. Why not just declare a 'shoot-at-site' order for people found with butter knives?
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Chemical_Scum
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#110
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#110
why dont they just blunt the ends of all cutting knives? when do you need to stab an onion or anything?just making killing knives more difficult to get your hands on would do it, or making all of them registered.
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Crosseyed And Painless
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#111
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#111
(Original post by 1721)
sure they will they will see millions of people who dont like knife crime.

so what do you suggest we do sweet nothing?
let the gang culture escalate till everyone is stabbing everyone?
good idea.
They will see millions of people who don't like knife crime?
Was the government's view before this that the majority of the population think knife crime is fun for all the family? Who likes knife crime? Aside from a few psychos and perhaps some media outlets.
I see what you're saying about drawing attention to an issue, but that doesn't mean the suggestion being made is flawless.

I think the 'the knife might have a use' argument is the crappest argument to use against this petition. No court in this country will send down somebody who has a legitimate reason to carry a knife, they never have done and they never will. There are far better ways to attack the petition such as the fact we're dealing with teenagers who can't reasonably be sent away for 5 years, or that the government is not going to jump from simply cautioning people for carrying a knife straight up to 5 years mandatory minimum sentence.
On the contrary, I think the knife having another use is important against this petition. This petition has nothing to do with how the legal system in this country actually works or how, god forbid, such a law would be implemented. It's about someone who has (I can only presume, apologies Pete if you put a lot of thought and research into coming up with the sentence time) picked a number out of the air, thought 'that sounds like a fair amount of time to muse over why you were carrying that knife', and then decided to go all hardline and suggest it should be a mandatory sentence for anyone found carrying a knife. Someone thinks that. And so they haven't considered the other reasons people might carry a knife, or they think them so unimportant, think these particular freedoms so unimportant that they should be sacrificed. That's what I disagree with. And perhaps this Peter Atkinson doesn't think this, but I can only go on what he's said.
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34253
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#112
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#112
(Original post by burningnun)
Not stupid enough to carry blades down my trousers actually, because I keep stuff there that I would rather didn't get cut. But just about any knife I carry will be unsheathed because I don't own a sheath for any of my knives. If for some reason I needed a kitchen knife (for example if I were on my way to a kitchen) it would certainly be unsheathed. You still haven't defined a "legitimate reason" in light of my example, but you did manage a thinly veiled ad hominem. Keep up the excellent work.
Or if you need/want to cut something outside your house. Or if someone wants to borrow your knife, to cut something in their house.

It's not THAT far fetched.
If you worked in a kitchen the police would let you move on as soon as you had proof of working in a kitchen. I think by law you have to carry them in a case (i'm not sure). Unless you're moving house you have no reason to carry a knife to another kitchen if you're not a chef. If you're on you way home from buying one it will be sheathed in plastic caseing.
If someone wants to borrow my knife? Are you pulling these ideas out of your arse? Seriously. Who the hell doesn't own a knife? What an absolutely stupid argument to make. I'm sure when the police stop a teenager now with a knife down their trousers and the teenager says 'I was on my way to my friends house to cut stuff, he owns absolutely zero knives' it results in them being freed immidiately :rolleyes: .
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1721
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#113
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#113
(Original post by solo2wolf)
why dont they just blunt the ends of all cutting knives? when do you need to stab an onion or anything?just making killing knives more difficult to get your hands on would do it, or making all of them registered.
what its not normal to stab onions i do it regularly when preparing onions.
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burningnun
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#114
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#114
(Original post by solo2wolf)
why dont they just blunt the ends of all cutting knives? when do you need to stab an onion or anything?just making killing knives more difficult to get your hands on would do it, or making all of them registered.
Criminals can convert BB guns into functional guns for killing stuff. Something tells me they would probably figure out a way to sharpen a knife.

Just a wild stab in the dark
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34253
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#115
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#115
(Original post by Crosseyed And Painless)
On the contrary, I think the knife having another use is important against this petition. This petition has nothing to do with how the legal system in this country actually works or how, god forbid, such a law would be implemented. It's about someone who has (I can only presume, apologies Pete if you put a lot of thought and research into coming up with the sentence time) picked a number out of the air, thought 'that sounds like a fair amount of time to muse over why you were carrying that knife', and then decided to go all hardline and suggest it should be a mandatory sentence for anyone found carrying a knife. Someone thinks that. And so they haven't considered the other reasons people might carry a knife, or they think them so unimportant, think these particular freedoms so unimportant that they should be sacrificed. That's what I disagree with. And perhaps this Peter Atkinson doesn't think this, but I can only go on what he's said.
Well, as the petition does not state 'ANYONE carrying a knife even with legit reasons will face a 5 year sentence' I think it's safe to presume, using the gift of common sense, that the petition starter does not want the countries chef population doing hard time.
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Chemical_Scum
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#116
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#116
(Original post by burningnun)
Criminals can convert BB guns into functional guns for killing stuff. Something tells me they would probably figure out a way to sharpen a knife.

Just a wild stab in the dark
jesus christ whats wrong with you people!we arnt talking about organised crime!were talkking about the kind of people who carry kitchen knives in their pants!
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burningnun
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#117
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#117
(Original post by Elipsis)
If you worked in a kitchen the police would let you move on as soon as you had proof of working in a kitchen. I think by law you have to carry them in a case (i'm not sure). Unless you're moving house you have no reason to carry a knife to another kitchen if you're not a chef. If you're on you way home from buying one it will be sheathed in plastic caseing.
You keep telling me what the only reason I would do stuff is. The thing is, you don't know me. If someone lives in two houses, they might "move house" quite a lot, and have to move knives and other useful things between the houses at times. Just an example, I'm sure there are plenty more possibilities.

If someone wants to borrow my knife? Are you pulling these ideas out of your arse? Seriously. Who the hell doesn't own a knife? What an absolutely stupid argument to make. I'm sure when the police stop a teenager now with a knife down their trousers and the teenager says 'I was on my way to my friends house to cut stuff, he owns absolutely zero knives' it results in them being freed immidiately :rolleyes: .
Actually I'm pulling them from my experience. I have lent knives to people and borrowed knife blades from people. Yes, you're right, the only reason you would need a new or different knife is if you own absolutely zero knives. Brilliant reasoning, at least by your special little standards.

I'm not sure why you still think carrying knives down your trousers is a good idea though. It's cute that you would call me stupid though. This could explain why you don't like knives I suppose.
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burningnun
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#118
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#118
(Original post by solo2wolf)
jesus christ whats wrong with you people!we arnt talking about organised crime!were talkking about the kind of people who carry kitchen knives in their pants!
How organised do you really have to be to sharpen a knife?

You need a stone, so I'll rephrase. How organised do you need to be to gain access to a stone?
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Crosseyed And Painless
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Elipsis)
Well, as the petition does not state 'ANYONE carrying a knife even with legit reasons will face a 5 year sentence' I think it's safe to presume, using the gift of common sense, that the petition starter does not want the countries chef population doing hard time.
'a mandatory minimum 5 year setence for the possesion of knives in public.'

That sounded like anyone to me. I don't know what the petition starter wants, just what his petition suggests he wants. He's managed two typos in one sentence though, which would be fine, but it's a sentence he's chosen to present to the world as his views. However this gives me hope that he's just a bit of a reactionary fool, rather than a psycho moron who's thought long and hard and concluded that anyone possessing knives in public should be jailed for five years.
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34253
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#120
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#120
(Original post by burningnun)
You keep telling me what the only reason I would do stuff is. The thing is, you don't know me. If someone lives in two houses, they might "move house" quite a lot, and have to move knives and other useful things between the houses at times. Just an example, I'm sure there are plenty more possibilities.
Actually I'm pulling them from my experience. I have lent knives to people and borrowed knife blades from people. Yes, you're right, the only reason you would need a new or different knife is if you own absolutely zero knives. Brilliant reasoning, at least by your special little standards.
I'm not sure why you still think carrying knives down your trousers is a good idea though. It's cute that you would call me stupid though. This could explain why you don't like knives I suppose.
Bloody hell you're dense. If you have two houses and regularly move knives between the two this would clearly provide an appropriate defense. You have to draw the line somewhere to stop people carrying knives to hurt people; next you'll be telling me an appropriate reason to carry a samuri sword is to scratch your head with. Nobody in the history of Britian has ever been prosecuted for transporting knives between their two houses; although it would look suspcious if they'd gone to great lengths to hide them on their person (up their sleave in their trousers whatever) instead of putting them in a box or a bag where they aren't easily accessible to use whilst on the street. Your experience means bugger all to me, from my experience I don't know anybody who could use a different knife for a different task that they don't already own; I don't see why public policy should be dictated because you and your friends are so poor you can only afford 1 kitchen knife between you. Your examples are bogus and you are as thick as a plank.
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