Will animals ever be granted right? Should they be? Watch

Poll: Should animals be granted rights?
Yes - animals should be granted rights; and yes I think it will happen in the future (21)
20.39%
Yes - animals should be granted rights; but I do not think it will never happen (24)
23.3%
Undecided (5)
4.85%
No animals should not be granted right; but I do think it will happen in the future (7)
6.8%
No - animals should not be granted rights; and I do not think it will happen in the future (46)
44.66%
Sarahl89
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#101
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#101
(Original post by Thud)
Because we have the capacity to think and reason. We're clearly superior given our complete control of the planet, no other animal has ever managed anything even coming close to the kind of feats achieved by humans.

And wtf animals already have rights in Britain.
Animals can think, some clearly can reason, show emotions, and some have very good memories. By evolutionary coincidence humans have come out on top (at the moment), and to be honest - the 'feats' achieved by humans? Look around, the world is a mess and would be better off if we were never here in the first place, probably.
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Sprockette
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#102
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#102
Humans have thought and morality and basic knowledge only through education. We're not born with the knowledge of the world or even basic fact. I know that animals aren't capable of morality or maybe grasping scientific facts but lack of knowledge doesn't mean you should just kill something.
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ch0c0h01ic
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#103
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#103
(Original post by HappinessHappening)
Then why test on them at all if they are so different?
While their physiology may be very homologous to our own (if you study an human, or veterinary medicine you will quickly discover this), their capacity to think and act on those thoughts (which is of the main concern to morality and rights) is very very different and poorly developed compared to our own.

Basically they're a good model (one of the best at our current level of understanding) for humans to test the use of certain treatments without the risk to human life.
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yvonnay
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#104
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#104
(Original post by HappinessHappening)
I don't see them as having the same thinking capacities, but I don't think that excludes them from rights either.
why do you think they need rights? so they can carry on their days eating, sleeping and pooing as they wish?? Animals are not equal to human beings. They do not experience life as we do. They are probably not even conscious of life.
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HappinessHappening
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#105
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#105
(Original post by Sarahl89)
Animals can think, some clearly can reason, show emotions, and some have very good memories. By evolutionary coincidence humans have come out on top (at the moment), and to be honest - the 'feats' achieved by humans? Look around, the world is a mess and would be better off if we were never here in the first place, probably.
Unfortunately, yes.

As a species, we are more like a tumour on this Earth, really. I still have hope for humanity though.
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fire2burn
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#106
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#106
(Original post by trachimbrod)
I know nobody's going to change your opinion, so to quell my suspicion, what would you do if you were alone in a swimming pool with a shark? Would you kill it, or let it kill you?
Well having swam with sharks in the Maldives I doubt it would even show me any interest, there is a common misconception that sharks want to eat humans. Humans simply aren't prey in the eyes of sharks and they only bite out of curiosity, the silhouette of a surfer from below looks remarkably like that of a seal. That and I'm assuming you are referring to a shark large enough to consume a human? Things like great whites cannot be kept in captivity the stress causes them not to eat and their underdeveloped spacial awareness causes them to bump into the sides. Also I doubt it would enjoy the chlorinated water.

Also I doubt i'd have the ability to kill it, the only things i carry on me whilst swimming are my swimming shorts and goggles hardly lethal weapons capable of repelling something like a shark.
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HappinessHappening
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#107
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#107
(Original post by yvonnay)
why do you think they need rights? so they can carry on their days eating, sleeping and pooing as they wish?? Animals are not equal to human beings. They do not experience life as we do. They are probably not even conscious of life.
Yes, that's exactly what I want for them.

In my opinion they are equal.

There's no way of objectively proving the last two claims. Impossible. So, I'd rather not take the chance.
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yvonnay
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#108
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#108
(Original post by Sprockette)
Humans have thought and morality and basic knowledge only through education. We're not born with the knowledge of the world or even basic fact. I know that animals aren't capable of morality or maybe grasping scientific facts but lack of knowledge doesn't mean you should just kill something.
yes but while we were finding fire they were still sleeping, eating, pooing as much as they still are today.
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trachimbrod
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#109
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#109
(Original post by yvonnay)
yes but while we were finding fire they were still sleeping, eating, pooing as much as they still are today.
Here here. As funny as it is true. No one who agrees with this animal rights charter thing has offered an alternative to meat in Africa, how dogs would pay their mortgages, how skunk's visa's will be processed or how HH will be tried for BRUTALLY MURDERING the poor little defenseless shark (who was TOOTHLESS ANYWAY) in COLD BLOOD.
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HappinessHappening
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#110
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#110
(Original post by trachimbrod)
Here here. As funny as it is true. No one who agrees with this animal rights charter thing has offered an alternative to meat in Africa, how dogs would pay their mortgages, how skunk's visa's will be processed or how HH will be tried for BRUTALLY MURDERING the poor little defenseless shark (who was TOOTHLESS ANYWAY) in COLD BLOOD.
Actually, the production of meat for consumption contributes massively to overall food shortage. It is suggested that the end of meat would = the end of world hunger/significantly reduce the problem.
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trachimbrod
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#111
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#111
(Original post by fire2burn)
Well having swam with sharks in the Maldives I doubt it would even show me any interest, there is a common misconception that sharks want to eat humans. Humans simply aren't prey in the eyes of sharks and they only bite out of curiosity, the silhouette of a surfer from below looks remarkably like that of a seal. That and I'm assuming you are referring to a shark large enough to consume a human? Things like great whites cannot be kept in captivity the stress causes them not to eat and their underdeveloped spacial awareness causes them to bump into the sides. Also I doubt it would enjoy the chlorinated water.

Also I doubt i'd have the ability to kill it, the only things i carry on me whilst swimming are my swimming shorts and goggles hardly lethal weapons capable of repelling something like a shark.
Do you think the shark enjoyed having you on his back? Where would this stand on this wonderful charter? Also, "they only bite out of curiosity" - exactly what I was doing when I had my first pork chop, and I quite liked it.
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trachimbrod
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#112
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#112
(Original post by HappinessHappening)
Actually, the production of meat for consumption contributes massively to overall food shortage. It is suggested that the end of meat would = the end of world hunger/significantly reduce the problem.
How exactly? (genuinely interested).

What would happen to the thousands of farmers who battery farm etc?
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Eragon452
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#113
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#113
(Original post by HappinessHappening)
Not to anywhere near the same degree that people do though.

Yeah and nor bloody should they.
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Eragon452
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#114
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#114
(Original post by Sarahl89)
Animals can think, some clearly can reason, show emotions, and some have very good memories. By evolutionary coincidence humans have come out on top (at the moment), and to be honest - the 'feats' achieved by humans? Look around, the world is a mess and would be better off if we were never here in the first place, probably.
"at the moment". lol. they've hardly got labs up and running to experiment on us though have they? As they're not that clever.
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fire2burn
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#115
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#115
(Original post by trachimbrod)
Do you think the shark enjoyed having you on his back? Where would this stand on this wonderful charter? Also, "they only bite out of curiosity" - exactly what I was doing when I had my first pork chop, and I quite liked it.
And now your posts have just turned to drivel and nonsense.

I was not on the back of the sharks, i was scuba diving in the sea to observe the beauty of an alien environment different to my own. I was not there to touch the creatures or steal souvenirs like coral or shells.

That's nice I hope you enjoyed it, I'm not particularly bothered by what you eat. I've made my own personal choice.
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Eragon452
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#116
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#116
(Original post by fire2burn)
And now your posts have just turned to drivel and nonsense.

I was not on the back of the sharks, i was scuba diving in the sea to observe the beauty of an alien environment different to my own. I was not there to touch the creatures or steal souvenirs like coral or shells.

That's nice I hope you enjoyed it, I'm not particularly bothered by what you eat. I've made my own personal choice.
What? Did you try to claim sharks only "bite out of curiosity"? Lol.
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Pigeon Explosion
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#117
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#117
I think this would also raise issues with pest control. Pest insects are animals, should they have legal protection? And animals such as mice and rats definitely feel pain, but wild ones can spread disease and destroy crops. Would they also have legal protection, on the basis of them being reasonably intelligent and sentient?
On another note, personally I don't like animal testing, but I think that it is probably necessary at this time. However, with the development of projects such as the Virtual Physiological Human, it may be possible to reduce usage of animals in research and testing.
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trachimbrod
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#118
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#118
(Original post by fire2burn)
That's nice I hope you enjoyed it, I'm not particularly bothered by what you eat. I've made my own personal choice.
Yes you have, so why should my personal choice be obstructed by an absurd list of rights to animals who won't even know they have them?

And, to be honest, I find pork a little dry, I just thought pork chops was better for the arguement than, say, duck confit.
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fire2burn
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#119
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#119
(Original post by trachimbrod)
How exactly? (genuinely interested).

What would happen to the thousands of farmers who battery farm etc?
Research the flow of energy in a food chain and about energy loss between trophic levels, all will become clear.
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numb3rb0y
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#120
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#120
(Original post by trachimbrod)
Yes you have, so why should my personal choice be obstructed by an absurd list of rights to animals who won't even know they have them?
Why should a serial-baby-murderer have his personal choice obstructed by an absurd list of rights to humans who don't even know they have them?
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