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BREAKING: Reports of multiple explosions at Boston Marathon leaving dozens wounded. watch

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    Anyone know what's happened to that old guy who was seen with a bomb vest on him?
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    (Original post by 419)
    Where's Dershowiz been speaking? Got a link to the video?
    He was on Piers Morgan; I don't have a link as I watched it on television. There's a CNN article that provides a partial account of what he said

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us...ext/index.html

    Edit: I've gone through all the 18 USC 2332 offences. Even under the very broad drafting of that statute, Dzhokar doesn't seem to fall under it. This case would be quite unique insofar as there's almost always a way you can construe some kind of federal jurisdiction in terrorism cases (usually because they involve foreign citizens, or they have trained overseas, or travelled over state lines in commissioning of the offence), but in this case it really does look like a state offence.

    The only "out" would be if the federal government argues that he, for example, set of a Weapon of Mass Destruction (which under the US law includes chemical explosives) under 18 USC 2332b, and that where and how he set it off had a substantial effect on interstate commerce.

    Not only would that be contrary to the current jurisprudential tests of when interstate commerce interests are engaged, it would also face an almost insurmountable causation hurdle.
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    The younger brothers twitter Kinda weird reading his tweets Makes you think

    https://mobile.twitter.com/J_tsar
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    (Original post by This Excellency)
    The younger brothers twitter Kinda weird reading his tweets Makes you think

    https://mobile.twitter.com/J_tsar
    "And here I thought nemo's dad was about to get it with dory but apparently this man turned into a female #thatscray"

    He doesn't come across as ultra extreme Muslim. No clue why he would've done this.
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    He was on Piers Morgan; I don't have a link as I watched it on television. There's a CNN article that provides a partial account of what he said

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us...ext/index.html

    Edit: I've gone through all the 18 USC 2332 offences. Even under the very broad drafting of that statute, Dzhokar doesn't seem to fall under it. This case would be quite unique insofar as there's almost always a way you can construe some kind of federal jurisdiction in terrorism cases (usually because they involve foreign citizens, or they have trained overseas, or travelled over state lines in commissioning of the offence), but in this case it really does look like a state offence.

    The only "out" would be if the federal government argues that he, for example, set of a Weapon of Mass Destruction (which under the US law includes chemical explosives) under 18 USC 2332b, and that where and how he set it off had a substantial effect on interstate commerce.

    Not only would that be contrary to the current jurisprudential tests of when interstate commerce interests are engaged, it would also face an almost insurmountable causation hurdle.
    Is terrorism not grounds for a federal trial?

    Besides shooting at federal agents is there were FBI agents at the final standoff.

    I'll admit I'm no expert on US law just curious.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    "And here I thought nemo's dad was about to get it with dory but apparently this man turned into a female #thatscray"

    He doesn't come across as ultra extreme Muslim. No clue why he would've done this.
    Anyone that say Dzhokar fits the profile of an extremist are pdeluded.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    "And here I thought nemo's dad was about to get it with dory but apparently this man turned into a female #thatscray"

    He doesn't come across as ultra extreme Muslim. No clue why he would've done this.
    Ridiculous thing to say - just like neighbours of murderers say "oh, he was a nice quiet man..always gave me a wave hello"

    Or when someone commits suicide - "oh he/she seemed so happy. I only spoke to them yesterday and they were laughing and joking"

    There is no set profile of an Islamist. Most of the 21/7 would-be bombers were highly educated and participated fully in society.

    Many of the 9/11 highjackers came from middle class, financially well off families.

    We also have to keep in mind the possibility of having twitter and facebook actually served as a cover for terrorism plots. Perhaps if they arose suspicion and had no social media footprint, that would be more suspicious given their age.

    These are straight up Islamists. They come in all shapes and sizes, colours and backgrounds. They can be dirt poor or wealthy. Educated or illiterate. Happy or sad.

    The one thing that they have in common is Islam.
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    (Original post by 419)
    Anyone that say Dzhokar fits the profile of an extremist are pdeluded.
    was probably brainwashed or pressured into it by his elder brother.
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    (Original post by Pendulum3)
    Look at the 19 years old twitter he doesn't seem radical or extreme, just seems like a normal teen, I wouldnt suspect anyone like him to carry out an attack like this.
    What were you expecting? Allahu akbars and political tweets?

    We often fall into the trap of thinking people are stereotypes or extremes. But many of us are pretty similar to each other, but we are all capable of different things and have wildly varying beliefs and reactions.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    The one thing that they have in common is Islam.
    And anger.
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    (Original post by Chindits)

    The one thing that they have in common is Islam.
    Poppycock. Are you saying murdering renegades to society never existed before Islam?
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    Is terrorism not grounds for a federal trial?
    Certainly, that might be grounds for separate charges. But terrorism isn't inherently a federal crime, that's why they have state terrorism laws.

    There has to be some element of the crime that engages federal jurisdiction. For example, if this was an attack on a federal building, or a federal official, or it "transcended" state law by, for example, being part of a global simultaneous attack, or if the perpetrators crossed state lines or hijacked an airliner (aviation is a federal issue), then they would fall under 18 USC 2332.

    The federal interest is very broad and in almost all cases you can construe federal jurisdiction. But in this case, it's uniquely state-based.

    In terms of shooting at federal agents, those are certainly separate charges. I hadn't seen any reports that they shot at FBI agents rather than state troopers.

    But the bombing itself; my feeling (and that of Alan Dershowitz, a famous American lawyer who is actually extremely "War on Terror"-ish, if you know what I mean) is that it is a state offence.

    When you read the provisions of 18 USC 2332, it's very hard to read in federal jurisdiction to the original bombing.
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    (Original post by ozzyoscy)
    What were you expecting? Allahu akbars and political tweets?
    That's certainly what Tamurlane's internet accounts looked like.

    We often fall into the trap of thinking people are stereotypes or extremes. But many of us are pretty similar to each other, but we are all capable of different things and have wildly varying beliefs and reactions.
    The things is... human nature is often correct. There are often where someone goes crazy and the neighbours are like, "Oh yeah, he was crazy". And sometimes they didn't expect it, like "They kept to themselves, were nice enough".

    But Dzhokar is seemingly a pot-smoking, American-pop-culture-loving, normal 19 year old. Whereas his brother Tamurlane much more fitted the profile of a guy who hated America, had a fundamentalist doctrine, etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out at trial that Tamurlane blackmailed and coerced his brother to take part. For example, Dzhokar had got a girl pregnant, or was planning to marry a black woman (this wouldn't go down
    well with a Chechen, trust me), or even that he is gay.

    All in all, if someone is so committed to radical Islam that they'll sacrifice their life, you'll expect they'll be at least committed enough to follow basic tenets like not smoking weed, not being into decadent American pop culture, etc.
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)

    The things is... human nature is often correct. There are often where someone goes crazy and the neighbours are like, "Oh yeah, he was crazy". And sometimes they didn't expect it, like "They kept to themselves, were nice enough".

    But Dzhokar is seemingly a pot-smoking, American-pop-culture-loving, normal 19 year old. Whereas his brother Tamurlane much more fitted the profile of a guy who hated America, had a fundamentalist doctrine, etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out at trial that Tamurlane blackmailed and coerced his brother to take part. For example, Dzhokar had got a girl pregnant, or was planning to marry a black woman (this wouldn't go down
    well with a Chechen, trust me), or even that he is gay.

    All in all, if someone is so committed to radical Islam that they'll sacrifice their life, you'll expect they'll be at least committed enough to follow basic tenets like not smoking weed, not being into decadent American pop culture, etc.
    History sort of diagrees with you there...........
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    I believe both Boston bombings and the fertiliser plant explosion in Texas are blood sacrifices to mark the vernal equinox that is the second half of April by the cult of Baal. The death of that little boy in the Boston Bombings has been especially emphasised as is a young child's death a more worthy sacrifice.

    I suspect the two boys are the result of MK-ultra programming...
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    . You can rationalise any atrocity, any outrage, any crime, as long as it's against Westerners.

    You hypocrite
    And you adduced this how precisely?

    (It is particularly ironic because one of the people killed in the bombing was a Chinese citizen, just minding her own business and partaking in the fruit of western civilisation. But I suppose anyone is fair game for you if they're consorting with the great satan.... right?
    No the attack happened in a Western country, and isn't great Satan Khomeini's label?

    We know that deep down, what you're really saying is "America deserved this")
    No deep down I'm saying, "I really don't care to be honest........" There's no way in hell I'm going to shed crocodile tears over this. Stop with this fake outrage!. Americans and Westerners in general should stop this victim mentality. Actions have consequences, you bomb, blow up and destroy whole countries you can't expect those people would sit idly by and then give you a good bye kiss on your way home.

    And how many poor, rural men, women and children get blown up every week with drone strikes yet I'm sure you could care less or at least indifferent to it because you're the one that actually sees a rationale in such slaughter.

    "you hypocrite"

    Killing no matter who's the victim is terrible. I unlike like you, any many others on this thread, don't see American/Western lives as any more sacred.
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    Looks like he was seriously led into this with his brother, obviously not an excuse.
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    No deep down I'm saying, "I really don't care to be honest........"
    So why do you care so much if other people care? Are you the dictator of feelings?

    There's no way in hell I'm going to shed crocodile tears over this. Stop with this fake outrage!
    You might argue that it's inconsistent that people care more about Westerners than non-Westerners. I would disagree. But it's insulting and absolutely wrong to claim that the outrage and upset is fake.

    Americans and Westerners in general should stop this victim mentality.
    And all this time I thought it was Islamic fundamentalists who engage in this perpetual victimhood mindset.

    And how many poor, rural men, women and children get blown up every week with drone strikes yet I'm sure you could care less or at least indifferent to it because you're the one that actually sees a rationale in such slaughter.
    It does have a rationale. There is a profound moral difference between unfortunate civilian casualties in pursuit of liquidation of a terrorist on a foreign battlefield, and deliberately targeting civilians.

    Killing no matter who's the victim is terrible.
    I thought you said you didn't care.
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    The BBC keep playing the clip of the mother talking about her sons, it's kind of heartbreaking

    She also mentions how the FBI had already known about them, had spoken to the parents and the brother's before

    Also saw a report about how the FBI had spoken to one of the brother's in 2011
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    It does have a rationale. There is a profound moral difference between unfortunate civilian casualties in pursuit of liquidation of a terrorist on a foreign battlefield, and deliberately targeting civilians
    This is precisely what I wanted you to admit. And you've confirmed everything I've suspected. And people actually wonder why they hate us over there? No but of course, it's those darned 72 virgins isn't it......... :rolleyes:

    Be sure to pass on your disgusting and condescending justification to those victims. I wonder if some radical Muslim guy came here and said well it's "unfortunate" that we had to kill civilians, but it's justified because it was in the pursuit of a "greater goal", what would he be called again?
 
 
 
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