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    (Original post by well in the dark)
    There is much evidence to believe that the Israeli army targets civilians. No wonder, as it constitutes predominantly of neo-nationalist fascists.

    There is no evidence at all of Hamas 'hiding among populace to provoke this kind of response'; you Zionists just keep parroting this over and over, but never provide substantial proof for this claim. It is null.

    How many countries were built on the skulls of dead Palestinians? How many countries are currently occupying land unlawfully on only religious grounds, demolishing homes to build new ones to fill them with foreigners who have no claim to the land whatsoever, arresting people and imprisoning them for no reason except a paranoia on their own part? How many people are oppressing their neighbouring country folk every day of the year? How many countries are operating a blockade on one the most densely populated areas of the earth, disallowing for betterment of livelihood for the millions of people living there, in addition to sporadically going crazy there by bombing the life out of the people of that area?
    'Hamas intends to wipe out Israel' - do you have proof for that, or are you simply conveying what you lapped up from the Zionist hasbara? Hamas has made Hamas's intentions clear, and Hamas's immediate intentions are certainly not to wipe out Israel.
    That said, if Hamas is a legitimate target simply because they do not believe in Israel's right to exist, then I too am a lawful target, because I do not believe that Israel has the right to plonk itself right smack on top of land stolen illegally and immorally from its previous owners.

    The nations surrounding Israel today are far from hostile to it. Israel is NOT the victim, and never was. Israel/Zionism means to exploit the Jews' oppression for its own worldly, distasteful good.
    Israel is the oppressor, the coloniser, the murderer.
    Hear Hear! :congrats:

    Israel's claim of only targeting militant using pinpoint methods are a farce, they have a record so far of 70%+ of those killed in the last few weeks confirmed as being civilians.

    the last ~24hours in Gaza - many more attacks from Apache helicopters, F16s, drones, tanks, and shelling from navy boats. Surrounded by Israeli military who view Palestinians as inferior and rightful to kill, by destroying infrastructure such as water and sewage systems as well as hospitals, the Palestinians have a limited number of places to run to,

    Confirmed repots of Israeli F16's bombing a refugee camp, these are well known as only being refugee camps and there is no evidence to suggest that any Hamas members were operating from there:


    Channel 4 report has shown that Israeli snipers have been targeting Palestinian rescue personnel looking for any survivors from bombing:



    Al Jazeera reports another hospital in Gaza being bombed and attacked from Israeli tanks, Israeli claims it "suspects" that the place was being used as a storage facility for bombs, however there is no evidence at all to suggest munition was being stored there or if any Hamas members were operating from there.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...111171397.html
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    I'm not "justifying" the actions of the Israelis, I am giving background to it and telling you why they are doing it.

    Going by your logic, all wars are immoral, since they involve killing people and surely you would not wish to condone death. :rolleyes:
    There is nothing more to be said other than to reiterate that you condone the collective punishment of the Gazans but not the Israeli's.

    Double standards and typical hypocrisy from you again...
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    (Original post by iamu)
    reports that large parts of Gaza are covered in white phosphorus gas, war crimes yo
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...shells-in-gaza

    The Israeli military is using flechette shells, which spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal metal darts, in its military operation in Gaza..

    The Israeli military deployed artillery shells containing white phosphorous in densely populated areas of Gaza during Operation Cast Lead in 2008 and 2009, causing scores of deaths and extensive burns. It initially issued a categorical denial of reports of the use of white phosphorous, but later admitted it, saying the weapon was only used to create smokescreens.

    Human Rights Watch said its use of the munitions in Operation Cast Lead was indiscriminate and evidence of war crimes .

    In response to a legal challenge, the IDF said last year it would "avoid the use in built-up areas of artillery shells containing white phosphorus, with two narrow exceptions." The exceptions were not disclosed .
    The use of white phosphorous is allowed to create smokescreens, however it is considered illegal to use in densely populated areas where civilians are likely to be harmed from its use. In this current conflict, and with reports mentioning the use of white phosphorous, it is another war crime. White phosphorous burns are extremely graphic, so I would rather not post them here.
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    (Original post by FATchristopher)
    Why did Israel bomb a hospital? Were there weapons in the hospital or were there people being treated for wounds sustained from consistent airstrikes in civilian regions? I wonder...
    Hamas has a habit of firing from unsavoury locations

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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    Israel's claim of only targeting militant using pinpoint methods are a farce, they have a record so far of 70%+ of those killed in the last few weeks confirmed as being civilians.
    By Hamas health Ministry figures

    They wouldn't lie.....you know....like they did last time? when the UN compiled a report and then the author distanced himself from it when he found out that in a shocking twist of events, an internationally proscribed terrorist group had lied to him about casualty figures.
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    (Original post by #That'sNotMe)
    That's for a whole other argument. I'm simply asking why, when Israel shell civilians in their masses, it is the right to defend themselves but Hamas sending home-made rockets is regarded as a threat?

    Also I take issue with your last point, and it is not Hamas being blamed, it is civilians. Regardless of whether Hamas were right or not why should Israel be allowed to blob neighbourhoods killing hundreds to punish an organisation whom statistically a fair population may not be empathetic to, with the shillings then driving those people to the side of Hamas as heroes?
    The Israelis wanted an excuse to use their considerable military power against their enemy and they got one. Now they're using excessive, brutal force in retaliation.

    Despite the horror that's occurring they aren't classified as terrorists because this is a war and they didn't start it. Its not a 'whole other argument' I'm afraid. The root cause makes all the difference.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    By Hamas health Ministry figures

    They wouldn't lie.....you know....like they did last time? when the UN compiled a report and then the author distanced himself from it when he found out that in a shocking twist of events, an internationally proscribed terrorist group had lied to him about casualty figures.
    Since when was the UN the Hamas Health Ministry?
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    Hello, I am an Arab currently living in the occupied territory of Beit Hanina in Jerusalem. There are too many statements for me to reply to them all. If anyone would like to know what has been going on, I will gladly reply. Unlike the propagandist you hear on TV, I actually understand Arab and Israeli intentions, and will happily explain the truth to the best of my ability.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Since when was the UN the Hamas Health Ministry?
    That's where the UN are getting their figures. They never learn.

    Same as with Hezbollah. Only several months later did they admit an extra 500 Hezbollah casualties on top of the 56 they declared or something :rolleyes:

    Hamas controls everything in Gaza. There are victims they want the UN representatives to see, and 'victims' they don't.

    Which then gives a false impression to the UN of a higher proportion of civilians killed.

    The Interior Ministry of Hamas issued guidelines to Gaza social media users on how they should report events, advising them to depict all casualties as “innocent civilians,” and not to show evidence of rockets fired from population centers.


    According to a report by MEMRI (the Middle East Media Research Institute) on Thursday, the campaign is being called the “Be Aware – Social Media Activist Awareness Campaign,” and an instructional video was posted on its official website and social media accounts."
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    (Original post by ahmadalkarute)
    Hello, I am an Arab currently living in the occupied territory of Beit Hanina in Jerusalem. There are too many statements for me to reply to them all. If anyone would like to know what has been going on, I will gladly reply. Unlike the propagandist you hear on TV, I actually understand Arab and Israeli intentions, and will happily explain the truth to the best of my ability.
    Question: since 'palestinians' have never laid a brick to build Jerusalem, just where do you get your chutzpah claiming it as your city?
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    lol

    Hamas one rocket fired = $500
    Israel one rocket intercepted by the iron dome = $40,000
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    There is nothing more to be said other than to reiterate that you condone the collective punishment of the Gazans but not the Israeli's.

    Double standards and typical hypocrisy from you again...
    It's not a double standard. I support human rights for Gazans and Israelis equally. I recognise that Hamas are the primary cause of the Gazans' suffering (and more limited Israeli suffering too). Therefore I want Israel to destroy Hamas, for the sake (primarily) of the Gazan people. But I also want the Gazans to stop believing in what Hamas stand for, because unfortunately a lot of them do, as evidenced by the 2006 election result.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    That's where the UN are getting their figures. They never learn.

    Same as with Hezbollah. Only several months later did they admit an extra 500 Hezbollah casualties on top of the 56 they declared or something :rolleyes:

    Hamas controls everything in Gaza. There are victims they want the UN representatives to see, and 'victims' they don't.

    Which then gives a false impression to the UN of a higher proportion of civilians killed.
    Have you ever considered that, when shooting a target surrounded by civilians with few or no militants, that there will be a large number of civilian deaths rather than believing anything the IDF tell you to believe? You're clearly the propaganda officer's wet dream.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    By Hamas health Ministry figures

    They wouldn't lie.....you know....like they did last time? when the UN compiled a report and then the author distanced himself from it when he found out that in a shocking twist of events, an internationally proscribed terrorist group had lied to him about casualty figures.
    I didn't realise many "terrorist" groups had a Health Ministry that had enough influence to coerce reporters, journalists, hospitals, morgues as well as UN representatives:rolleyes:

    So you prefer to believe all the photographic evidence of civilian deaths are fake and all news reports, such as the bombing of children playing on a beach which many journalists witnessed, are all fake?

    Or do you believe that a lower figure is far more acceptable for civilian deaths?:lolwut:

    I believe this summed you up perfectly:

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I know that Israel isn't particularly hot on international law, and you aren't too hot on logic, but given current civilian fatality estimates, in military terms it's no where near 20:1. And then in terms of international relations, the high civilian rates are already proving suicidal.
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    Because they don't break their ceasefires and every conflict with Arabs, they have always given their land away. It boggles the mind that people think they're looking to expand.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you ever considered that, when shooting a target surrounded by civilians with few or no militants, that there will be a large number of civilian deaths rather than believing anything the IDF tell you to believe? You're clearly the propaganda officer's wet dream.
    Legitimate military targets according to international law.
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    I didn't realise many "terrorist" groups had a Health Ministry that had enough influence to coerce reporters, journalists, hospitals, morgues as well as UN representatives:rolleyes:
    Hamas control the style of haircuts in Gaza.

    I think they can control a Health Ministry, given that the Health Minister is a Hamas guy :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Legitimate military targets according to international law.
    Last I checked hospitals and non-militirised residential areas aren't legitimate targets.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Last I checked hospitals and non-militirised residential areas aren't legitimate targets.
    If they're used for rocket fire, they're legitimate targets
 
 
 
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