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The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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    (Original post by Rakas21)

    When you look at the times that Labour has been in government (bar Attlee), they have always tended to maintain the consensus rather than change it. In that sense, any change from neoliberalism was always going to have to come from the Tories if it is indeed dead.
    You could say the same thing about the Tories (bar Thatcher). Attlee set the consensus that the Tories kept in line with till Thatcher's 'New Right'.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    The impression I've got from the conference is that we're moving to a "new centre" filled with populism. The speech sounds very much like it's for targeting a strong majority at a general election a la Blair. We've moved on from the globalisation-liking party that prioritises economic competence to a party that focuses on getting rid of Johnny Foreigner instead.

    It's interesting that the discarding of neoliberalism hasn't come from Labour, but from the Tories instead.
    How do you feel about that? Seeing as how you seem to be a pretty strongly in the neoliberal camp.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    You could say the same thing about the Tories (bar Thatcher). Attlee set the consensus that the Tories kept in line with till Thatcher's 'New Right'.
    I suppose we do have a small sample but i'd agree. It's amazing how influential Attlee and Thatcher were.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I suppose we do have a small sample but i'd agree. It's amazing how influential Attlee and Thatcher were.
    And unfortunately a bigger sample of Tories than Labourites by some distance I honestly hope Labour comes out of the current mess with fresh ideas ready to really make a change the next time we're in government.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    How do you feel about that? Seeing as how you seem to be a pretty strongly in the neoliberal camp.
    I think you know from the tone of my post how I feel about this It's not really the change as much as what it's been replaced with for me.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    And unfortunately a bigger sample of Tories than Labourites by some distance I honestly hope Labour comes out of the current mess with fresh ideas ready to really make a change the next time we're in government.
    I think i counted 18 election wins last century although the Liberals narrowly had us in the 1800's (though to be fair the Tories until May were probably closer to Gladstone than Disraeli). With May's approach and Corbyn being leader, there's every chance that we'll be five or six nil before we get beaten this century.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    And unfortunately a bigger sample of Tories than Labourites by some distance I honestly hope Labour comes out of the current mess with fresh ideas ready to really make a change the next time we're in government.
    Again, either Corbyn steps down before the next election or you're looking for a new party to support, and we all know too few Labour MPs have the guts to be the ones to go and make that new party, they never have been good at the brutal back stabby bit of politics that the Tories excel at, part of the reason they tried jumping Corbyn at the complete wrong times, amateurs, see an opportunity and jump at it without thinking.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Again, either Corbyn steps down before the next election or you're looking for a new party to support, and we all know too few Labour MPs have the guts to be the ones to go and make that new party, they never have been good at the brutal back stabby bit of politics that the Tories excel at, part of the reason they tried jumping Corbyn at the complete wrong times, amateurs, see an opportunity and jump at it without thinking.

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    I don't believe Corbyn is capable of killing the party. The member's support for him is not beyond question. Even if he leads us to a huge defeat in 2020, I fully believe the party will recover and the next time the Tories are out of power, we'll be in it.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    I don't believe Corbyn is capable of killing the party. The member's support for him is not beyond question. Even if he leads us to a huge defeat in 2020, I fully believe the party will recover and the next time the Tories are out of power, we'll be in it.
    The problem is not with the party but the members, they've already shown that they don't care about results, remember, lots of them are only in Labour because they have a bigger vote share than the tiny parties they would back otherwise. The thing is, come 2020 the nominations shouldn't be hard to get, and then the next hard left nutter sweeps through and either Labour splits and the current one dies, or it doesn't split and it all dies.

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think i counted 18 election wins last century although the Liberals narrowly had us in the 1800's (though to be fair the Tories until May were probably closer to Gladstone than Disraeli). With May's approach and Corbyn being leader, there's every chance that we'll be five or six nil before we get beaten this century.
    I thought the century began in 2000! So that makes it two all for Conservatives against Labour, in terms of largest party. As for the 19th century, until 1884 most men were ineligible to vote and women did not have the vote at all, so i don't consider that comparable. If it were football, you'd be comparing the first team results with something akin to the Checkatrade trophy.
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    Decision today on fracking from the RL government.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Decision today on fracking from the RL government.
    Having seen may yesterday she will probably ban it to try to grab votes from the greens

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    Surely it'll be another "its legal, but up to local councils?"

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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    I thought the century began in 2000! So that makes it two all for Conservatives against Labour, in terms of largest party. As for the 19th century, until 1884 most men were ineligible to vote and women did not have the vote at all, so i don't consider that comparable. If it were football, you'd be comparing the first team results with something akin to the Checkatrade trophy.
    It's two so far but Labour are already 99 seats behind meaning they require already the third largest seat swing since 1945. By 2020, that will be around 150. There's a very realistic prospect that the Tories will be so far ahead in 2020 that it will take at least 2 elections to get them out, hence by 2030 we could be looking at 6-0.
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    I'm at a loss as to why the Sun, Daily Mail and parts of the telegraph are creaming themselves over May's speech.

    Yes it was anti immigrant, I get that. But huge chunks of it could have been written by Ed Miliband.

    When Miliband talked about irresponsible capitalism, tax dodgers, capping energy prices, creating a country that works for r many not the few, being strong in the face of the powerful etc, he was slammed by the very same papers for being anti- business.

    Yet Theresa May who went further than Miliband is seen as 'standing up for working people'.

    Baffling.*
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    Apparently Steven Woolfe has been punched and hospitalised by a fellow UKIP MEP.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Apparently Steven Woolfe has been punched and hospitalised by a fellow UKIP MEP.
    He was punched but collapsed afterward and his condition is serious.

    Stress related heart attack?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm at a loss as to why the Sun, Daily Mail and parts of the telegraph are creaming themselves over May's speech.

    Yes it was anti immigrant, I get that. But huge chunks of it could have been written by Ed Miliband.

    When Miliband talked about irresponsible capitalism, tax dodgers, capping energy prices, creating a country that works for r many not the few, being strong in the face of the powerful etc, he was slammed by the very same papers for being anti- business.

    Yet Theresa May who went further than Miliband is seen as 'standing up for working people'.

    Baffling.*
    Because it was fairly broad in its appeal i think different bits of the media are latching on to different policies.

    The media likes to back winner because it sells papers.. May's won.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm at a loss as to why the Sun, Daily Mail and parts of the telegraph are creaming themselves over May's speech.

    Yes it was anti immigrant, I get that. But huge chunks of it could have been written by Ed Miliband.

    When Miliband talked about irresponsible capitalism, tax dodgers, capping energy prices, creating a country that works for r many not the few, being strong in the face of the powerful etc, he was slammed by the very same papers for being anti- business.

    Yet Theresa May who went further than Miliband is seen as 'standing up for working people'.

    Baffling.*
    It was interesting in the DT that the main comments piece was fiercely attacking May,the tertiary piece was defending (and the second was Nigel talking about UKIP). Interestingly there wasn't really anything published on the matter in the letters

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    He was punched but collapsed afterward and his condition is serious.

    Stress related heart attack?
    Bleed on the brain apparently
 
 
 
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