Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Midlander
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#1241
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#1241
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
The point I made was that the national debt PER HEAD in Scotland is quite a bit lower than the national debt PER HEAD in England. That situation will get even better after independence as Scotland will have ZERO expenditure on weapons of mass destruction for example.

Even with a limited budget, the SNP government has made a much better use of funds than the UK government. It has not used borrowing powers but simply managed the finances very well.

Sterling belongs as much to Scotland as it belongs to England. In fact any country in the world can use Sterling if it wants to - the UK government has no power to prevent anyone from using sterling. An independent Scotland will use the currency that suits it best. It will get its own currency if and when it wants to.

"Perks of union are retained" won't mean England granting Scotland any favours. Scotland will keep any "perks" which it might be entitled to and which might suit it in the short or long term. Do you know of any country which became independent and completely changed everything from Day 1?
Salmond has lied on the matter of NATO membership-which two SNP MSPs resigned over I believe. How does sterling belong to Scotland? It took on the English pound when it joined the union back in 1707 as its own economy was ruined following the Darien scheme. The currency is controlled by the Bank of England which would have the final say on Scotland using GBP for itself.

It's contradictory to keep the perks of union when shunning a 300 year union for no reason other than spite. Still haven't answered my other question by the way-do I need to repost it a 5th time?
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cowsforsale
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#1242
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#1242
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Have you ever visited Scotland?

Have you ever been a victim of Anglophobia in Scotland?
Apparently drunk rugby fans choosing to support Wales = Anglophobic Scots.
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Midlander
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#1243
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#1243
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Have you ever visited Scotland?

Have you ever been a victim of Anglophobia in Scotland?
I've been at university here for 5 years. A few choice examples from this year alone:

'What do you mean hating England is petty? You killed our people hundreds of years ago.'

'I hate it whenever England win something-you're all so flipping arrogant.'

'English generals sent Scottish soldiers into battle first in the War to protect English lives'

'Nazi Germany didn't bomb Scotland-they only bombed England so I've got nothing against Germany'

I could go on. Suffice to say we would be here a while.
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Midlander
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#1244
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#1244
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Apparently drunk rugby fans choosing to support Wales = Anglophobic Scots.
I would say yelling your head off because Italy score a try at Twickenham falls into the petty bracket, wouldn't you? Didn't realise Milan was a suburb of Edinburgh.
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Maths Tutor
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#1245
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#1245
(Original post by Midlander)

What would independence gain you that you don't already have from devolution?
Devolution gives very few powers compared to the powers exercised over Scotland by WESTMINSTER.

The Scottish government only gets a fraction of the revenues generated from Scotland to spend on Scotland. Even those funds are decreasing.

Billions of Scotland's revenues are wasted by WESTMINSTER on weapons of mass destruction, which are situated close to our biggest city.

So for a start let us say, move weapons of mass destruction from the Clyde to the Thames and let only England pay for them. Let Scotland spend 100% of its revenues.

Then maybe your question will start sounding reasonable.
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Midlander
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#1246
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#1246
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Devolution gives very few powers compared to the powers exercised over Scotland by WESTMINSTER.

The Scottish government only gets a fraction of the revenues generated from Scotland to spend on Scotland. Even those funds are decreasing.

Billions of Scotland's revenues are wasted by WESTMINSTER on weapons of mass destruction, which are situated close to our biggest city.

So for a start let us say, move weapons of mass destruction from the Clyde to the Thames and let only England pay for them. Let Scotland spend 100% of its revenues.

Then maybe your question will start sounding reasonable.
What of all the money given to Scotland by Westminster for regeneration projects, which it has spent virtually nothing of?
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Maths Tutor
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#1247
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#1247
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
as you keep saying that Scotland doesn't have a voice in Westminster, I merely pointed out three rather high profile scots that were part of the UK government disproving your hypothesis. We'll even leave out the ones presently in government that nobody in Scotland appeared to vote for yet they're still in government.
You don't get it do you?

Were Blair, Brown and Darling representing Scotland's interests at Westminster?

Was 'Home-Flipper' Darling representing Scotland's interests when he wanted to cut deeper and faster than Thatcher? Not forgetting that in Scotland Thatcher is the mosted hated UK politician of recent times.
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Maths Tutor
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#1248
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#1248
(Original post by FinalMH)
Can you please refrain from being patronizing, it does not add to the debate.I am not afraid of anything.
Stop the rhetoric and make your point... If you have one that is...
Who posted this? And what was YOUR point?

(Original post by FinalMH)
I think you need to understand the majority of the people in Scotland did not vote for SNP government, however based on the elector system provided them with more MPs. The SNP had 876,421 votes and against the SNP were 927,240 (Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrats).
As you have repeatedly failed to substantiate your claim by giving a comparison with WESTMINSTER, let me tell you:

1. The Scottish electoral system gives a much fairer representation in parliament than the WESTMINSTER system;

2. The SNP government in Scotland has a much better democratic mandate than the Conservative government at WESTMINSTER.
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J.Nalbandian14
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#1249
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#1249
As far as I am concerned, because of geographic terrain, Scotland has always been its own country. But they could not do any worse than the crooks in Parliament. In fact I think they would do better. Scottish people are not afraid to work
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Maths Tutor
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#1250
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#1250
(Original post by Midlander)
Salmond has lied on the matter of NATO membership-which two SNP MSPs resigned over I believe. How does sterling belong to Scotland? It took on the English pound when it joined the union back in 1707 as its own economy was ruined following the Darien scheme. The currency is controlled by the Bank of England which would have the final say on Scotland using GBP for itself.

It's contradictory to keep the perks of union when shunning a 300 year union for no reason other than spite. Still haven't answered my other question by the way-do I need to repost it a 5th time?
Why don't you answer some questions yourself:

Do you know of any country which became independent and completely changed everything from Day 1?

The Bank of England has NO SAY in ANY country in the world using Sterling if it wants to, let alone Scotland.
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Midlander
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#1251
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#1251
(Original post by J.Nalbandian14)
As far as I am concerned, because of geographic terrain, Scotland has always been its own country. But they could not do any worse than the crooks in Parliament. In fact I think they would do better. Scottish people are not afraid to work
There's nothing we English like more than sitting on our backsides plotting the downfall of all the Celtic nations.


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Midlander
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#1252
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#1252
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Why don't you answer some questions yourself:

Do you know of any country which became independent and completely changed everything from Day 1?

The Bank of England has NO SAY in ANY country in the world using Sterling if it wants to, let alone Scotland.
Can't answer it then. The USA formed its own government, laws, and currency soon after declaring independence.

Care to answer my question now or ignore it for the umpteenth time?


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J.Nalbandian14
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#1253
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#1253
(Original post by Midlander)
There's nothing we English like more than sitting on our backsides plotting the downfall of all the Celtic nations.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This all over Politics, covering up the real reason why Celts and English' hate each other.
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Maths Tutor
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#1254
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#1254
(Original post by Midlander)
if English MPs could vote on Scottish matters you can be sure that Salmond would be right onto it.
MPs from ENGLAND DO VERY MUCH vote on Scottish matters which are not devolved. Look at the make up of the Scottish Affairs committee at Westminster - how many Tory MPs from England are on it? Not forgetting that there is 1 Tory MP from Scotland.
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Midlander
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#1255
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#1255
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
MPs from ENGLAND DO VERY MUCH vote on Scottish matters which are not devolved. Look at the make up of the Scottish Affairs committee at Westminster - how many Tory MPs from England are on it? Not forgetting that there is 1 Tory MP from Scotland.
Stop avoiding the question I have been asking on here for over a week.

Scottish MPs voted to raise English tuition fees-what is right about that?


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Maths Tutor
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#1256
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#1256
(Original post by Midlander)
I've been at university here for 5 years. A few choice examples from this year alone:

'What do you mean hating England is petty? You killed our people hundreds of years ago.'

'I hate it whenever England win something-you're all so flipping arrogant.'

'English generals sent Scottish soldiers into battle first in the War to protect English lives'

'Nazi Germany didn't bomb Scotland-they only bombed England so I've got nothing against Germany'

I could go on. Suffice to say we would be here a while.
I don't know where and under what circumstances you heard those comments but there wouldn't be so many English people living or studying in Scotland if your claim "Anglophobia is rife in Scotland" was true.
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Midlander
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#1257
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#1257
(Original post by J.Nalbandian14)
This all over Politics, covering up the real reason why Celts and English' hate each other.
The Celtic nations base their whole identities on Anglophobia and unsurprisingly that irritates people in England. Wallace died 700 years ago, get over it.


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Midlander
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#1258
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#1258
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
I don't know where and under what circumstances you heard those comments but there wouldn't be so many English people living or studying in Scotland if your claim "Anglophobia is rife in Scotland" was true.
I hear them from Scots at university-and many English people don't experience it until they physically get up here. There are several good articles on why very few English students studying in Scotland stay there after graduation essentially because of Anglophobic sentiment.


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Maths Tutor
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#1259
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#1259
(Original post by cowsforsale)
Apparently drunk rugby fans choosing to support Wales = Anglophobic Scots.
Yes, the conversations would have to be put into context. You couldn't extrapolate that into: "Anglophobia is rife in Scotland".
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Maths Tutor
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#1260
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#1260
(Original post by Midlander)
What of all the money given to Scotland by Westminster for regeneration projects, which it has spent virtually nothing of?
When was it given? How much? Were there strings or ropes attached?

I know a previous Labour government repaid a large sum of 'unspent' money to Westminster. Has the SNP government done the same?
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