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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    It's not just the NHS, but right across the public sector, but yes, I'm certainly worried about it.
    true enough, what amazes me is how long it took the media to notice...
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    true enough, what amazes me is how long it took the media to notice...
    The media is always slow on these things tbh. Mind, their predictions are more likely to be accurate (or more accurately not wrong) than the sources that predict things earlier obviously. A lot of things, until they are certain, wont be reported on in the popular media, hence why I prefer smaller media sources. Often more biased, but if you read several and make your own opinions from them it's much better. I assume that a lot of people in the HoC are likely to have this approach rather than relying on the popular media for their information.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    The media is always slow on these things tbh. Mind, their predictions are more likely to be accurate (or more accurately not wrong) than the sources that predict things earlier obviously. A lot of things, until they are certain, wont be reported on in the popular media, hence why I prefer smaller media sources. Often more biased, but if you read several and make your own opinions from them it's much better. I assume that a lot of people in the HoC are likely to have this approach rather than relying on the popular media for their information.
    well, its been around for ages on the web, even in the odd article in the Guardian too

    im not surprised the media has generally been in favor of it, im just surprised they hadnt talked about it till now

    I generally read alot of Left Wing blogs and check the BBC or Guardian for my news
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    are your party concerned with the RL changes to the NHS? I am, it smells like privatisation and marketisation to me, same god awful ****e they are fudging up the education system with...
    worried for the NHS indeed i am

    privatisation off healthcare doesn't work

    even in this country, all you get is a room on your own some nice curtains and maybe better food, but the treatment is the same, as most off its done in NHS hospitals

    while GPs should have more power, most off them won't have a clue how to budget



    "The speed of the reforms means PCTs are imploding as staff leave in droves”
    Quote Dr Laurence Buckman British Medical Association


    there going to want us to do more, on a even smaller budget, which won't wrong, only for them to go we will allow private companies and let people pick them


    this is were cameron is being well not a nice word, 1 minute the NHS is the greatest thing this country has every done
    I believe the creation of the NHS is one of the greatest achievements of the 20th century. I always believed this.
    David Cameron, 2006
    When your family relies on the NHS all the time – day after day, night after night – you know how precious it is.
    David Cameron, 2006
    all the way through elections

    There isn’t a quiet life option because there is so little incentive in the NHS to improve the health of the nation… We shouldn’t be aiming for second best.
    David Cameron, 2011

    We will never jeopardise the NHS by cutting its funding.
    David Cameron, 2006



    The worry is that we have seen time and again what happens when staffing levels are slashed without thinking of the impact on patient care… and there is no doubt care will suffer.
    Dr Peter Carter, general secretary of the Royal College of Nursing on imminent staff cuts, 2010


    the fact more less everyone involved in healthcare is against this, the Kings Fund can tell you that
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    I only read the daily sport and even then I just look at the pretty pictures :drool:
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    are your party concerned with the RL changes to the NHS? I am, it smells like privatisation and marketisation to me, same god awful ****e they are fudging up the education system with...
    I am sceptical about the Government's plans with the NHS and education but I shall wait to see before I judge them. From the part I heard about the NHS, David Cameron seems to be continuing the reforms that Tony Blair and Labour didn't get done while they were in office so I don't oppose that and I actually like the sound of effectively giving more power to the patients.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I am sceptical about the Government's plans with the NHS and education but I shall wait to see before I judge them. From the part I heard about the NHS, David Cameron seems to be continuing the reforms that Tony Blair and Labour didn't get done while they were in office so I don't oppose that and I actually like the sound of effectively giving more power to the patients.
    :eek:

    I thought you guys were TSR Labour, not TSR New Labour...
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    :eek:

    I thought you guys were TSR Labour, not TSR New Labour...
    Yes we are TSR Labour; the views though will range from the left-wing to centre-left. I am merely one member who is centre-left; not to say all members are centre-left. In fact I would guess that most members are mainly Old Labour.
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    :eek:

    I thought you guys were TSR Labour, not TSR New Labour...
    Didn't the picture of Mandy give it away?
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    Yes we are TSR Labour; the views though will range from the left-wing to centre-left. I am merely one member who is centre-left; not to say all members are centre-left. In fact I would guess that most members are mainly Old Labour.
    the NHS and Education reforms are Centre Right reforms though...they are marketising and privatising both...

    "New" Labour is very much Centre Right...
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    the NHS and Education reforms are Centre Right reforms though...they are marketising and privatising both...

    "New" Labour is very much Centre Right...
    How exactly are the reforms leading to privatisation? Sorry for my ignorance, I have only heard extracts of the reforms. I agree with the plans to give power to the patients, giving them a say with GPs, asking for levels of satisfaction; I believe that is a good way forward.

    I would argue that New Labour is on the centre-left; policies are fundamentally left wing but have parts which have been taken from the right wing. I would never say I am centre-right or right wing.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    How exactly are the reforms leading to privatisation? Sorry for my ignorance, I have only heard extracts of the reforms. I agree with the plans to give power to the patients, giving them a say with GPs, asking for levels of satisfaction; I believe that is a good way forward.

    I would argue that New Labour is on the centre-left; policies are fundamentally left wing but have parts which have been taken from the right wing. I would never say I am centre-right or right wing.
    no, the reforms make the NHS accountable to market competition laws so that NHS providers and stuff will be undercut by the private sector.

    as for education the marketisation is obvious (see tuiton fee competition between Uni's) and the government is allowing private Universities too...

    you are Centre Right if you support the NHS and education reforms, not to mention New Labour's agenda of authoritarian anti-terror laws and there wars, if you support them too...
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    Those who see New Labour as centre-left are kind of missing the point of what they were trying achieve. Old Labour (pre or post Michael Foot) was centre-Left. Jimmy Carter was centre-left. Heck even Bill Clinton was centre-left to a point. Blair and New Labour weren't. If you understand what the Left-Right spectrum is about, you'll know why. Until then, I would question whether Labour really is the place for you.
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    no, the reforms make the NHS accountable to market competition laws so that NHS providers and stuff will be undercut by the private sector.

    as for education the marketisation is obvious (see tuiton fee competition between Uni's) and the government is allowing private Universities too...

    you are Centre Right if you support the NHS and education reforms, not to mention New Labour's agenda of authoritarian anti-terror laws and there wars, if you support them too...
    I do not agree with that and I am completely against the mess they have made of tuition fees. Not sure about making university free though because then that would decrease the value of a degree so I'm not sure.

    I didn't support Iraq, I felt that anti-terror laws were right at the time because we have seen proof of how they have stopped numerous terrorists and I support aspects of the reforms because they touch what Labour didn't finish off.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Those who see New Labour as centre-left are kind of missing the point of what they were trying achieve. Old Labour (pre or post Michael Foot) was centre-Left. Jimmy Carter was centre-left. Heck even Bill Clinton was centre-left to a point. Blair and New Labour weren't. If you understand what the Left-Right spectrum is about, you'll know why. Until then, I would question whether Labour really is the place for you.
    You can't really compare the Left-Right spectrum to the USA because their politics are completely different to ours. The USA is generally right-wing and even most of the Democrats are centre-right or centre. Old Labour was very much left-wing with politicians like Tony Benn. It was only once Neil Kinnock was leader that the party really started to move towards the centre-left. New Labour is not centre-right at all; they are very much a Third Way party but tend to lean towards the left. In actual fact I probably represent the RL Labour Party more than you do; given most of them are New Labourites.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I do not agree with that and I am completely against the mess they have made of tuition fees. Not sure about making university free though because then that would decrease the value of a degree so I'm not sure.

    I didn't support Iraq, I felt that anti-terror laws were right at the time because we have seen proof of how they have stopped numerous terrorists and I support aspects of the reforms because they touch what Labour didn't finish off.
    whether you agree with it or not is frankly irrelevant, the fact is New Labour are Centre Right.

    actually there is little proof that many measures did anything...

    if you support the reforms of New Labour and the ConDems then you are Centre Right, pure and simple.
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    I am deeply sceptical about the changes as well. I don't think that introducing private providers into the system will have a positive effect. It will lead to the most profitable aspects being siphoned off leaving the NHS with the rest. Changing providers is not the way to solve any problems that exist within it. There probably are more managers than are needed, but having spoken to quite a few doctors, many don't want to be saddled with dealing with the budget. It's also bound to compromise the GP/patient relationship. I agree with rob, the NHS is the greatest thing about this country.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    You can't really compare the Left-Right spectrum to the USA because their politics are completely different to ours. The USA is generally right-wing and even most of the Democrats are centre-right or centre. Old Labour was very much left-wing with politicians like Tony Benn. It was only once Neil Kinnock was leader that the party really started to move towards the centre-left. New Labour is not centre-right at all; they are very much a Third Way party but tend to lean towards the left. In actual fact I probably represent the RL Labour Party more than you do; given most of them are New Labourites.
    You are a bit clueless but I'll leave it at that.
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    Dear TSR Labour, what would you propose as a tax rise to help eliminate the gap between government spending and government revenue. I would be looking for suggestions of a tax that hasn't already been planned by the current government or one of Labours proposed tax increases like NI which are inadequate to fill the gap.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    You are a bit clueless but I'll leave it at that.
    What the hell? By all means state your opinion but there is no need to be insulting.
 
 
 
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