The Commons Bar Mk VIII - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Jarred
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#1301
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#1301
I finally gave Breaking Bad another try recently and this time it really clicked with me. Before I couldn't understand why people were calling it one of the greatest shows of all time, now I'm beginning to understand. It's pretty addictive.
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Will95206
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#1302
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(Original post by Life_peer)
Interesting, I most probably will.
TBH being homophobic is just obstructive to our society but also the the progression on equality around the world.

I hope one day we will live in a world were we no longer tolerate racism, homophobia and all of the other prejudices we have in our world today.
In the words of John Lennon:


"Imagine all the people, cheering all the world"

"You may say I am a dreamer, but I'm not the only one,

"I hope some day you join us and the world will live as one"

This song 'Imagine' might be elements of the destruction of religion and the need for world communism and for the record I am not a communist but It speaks volumes about then enviable need for the end of prejudice and the need for more equality. I don't want to get bogged down into debate about the meaning of imagine but my message to all homophobes is to be more accepting and not to accept their prejudices.
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Smack
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#1303
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#1303
(Original post by Mechie)
One thing that gets to me about living at home is that I can't go to the nights out. Damn train service stopping at 11.30.
Taxi home?
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Life_peer
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#1304
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(Original post by Will95206)
TBH being homophobic is just obstructive to our society but also the the progression on equality around the world.

I hope one day we will live in a world were we no longer tolerate racism, homophobia and all of the other prejudices we have in our world today.
In the words of John Lennon:


"Imagine all the people, cheering all the world"

"You may say I am a dreamer, but I'm not the only one,

"I hope some day you join us and the world will live as one"

This song 'Imagine' might be elements of the destruction of religion and the need for world communism and for the record I am not a communist but It speaks volumes about then enviable need for the end of prejudice and the need for more equality. I don't want to get bogged down into debate about the meaning of imagine but my message to all homophobes is to be more accepting and not to accept their prejudices.
If you really believe in hippie dreams, I have no answer for you, but I suggest to think about what you wrote there: “I hope one day we will live in a world were we no longer tolerate…”

Eradicating intolerance with further oppressive intolerance is frankly stupid. Also, what gives you the authority to decide upon what is morally good? Apart from religions (which are ignored in philosophy, because there is currently no scientifically accepted way of proving the existence of an objective authority, i.e. God), there is no objective code and everything is decided arbitrarily, mainly based on statistical norms. Our species – in fact every species – is obviously disposed to not live in a perfect harmony and the prattle on equality just makes me sick, because it is so far from the truth that I can not even comprehend how can a sane person arrive to this conclusion. This absurd attitude just leads to spending millions to save an individual while thousands of them live on the streets or overpopulation which is further supported despite not having enough resources for sustainability.

There are differences – possibly everything in existence is dual in opposites. We can not be equal, because there are strong and weak ones, intelligent and stupid ones, tall and little ones, men and women, etc. We are extremely diverse and the “liberal” effort to enslave certain groups by forcefully projecting some decided values into them is disgusting.

If you really believe in tolerance, tolerate that some people can have different opinions! No one is chasing homosexuals with pitchforks. :rolleyes:
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toronto353
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(Original post by Life_peer)
QFA
I would like to ask about your views on homosexuality a bit more - you mention about it being a choice. How do you square that with the fact that many animals display homosexual tendencies just as they display heterosexual tendencies? How do you also square it with the fact that homosexuality also is documented in many ancient societies suggesting that it is a normal part of the human experience?
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That Bearded Man
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#1306
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#1306
(Original post by Jarred)
I finally gave Breaking Bad another try recently and this time it really clicked with me. Before I couldn't understand why people were calling it one of the greatest shows of all time, now I'm beginning to understand. It's pretty addictive.
Loved the whole Jesse Walt bromance from the beginning, ALL the actors were superb I think, which is some achievement.
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Life_peer
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(Original post by toronto353)
I would like to ask about your views on homosexuality a bit more - you mention about it being a choice. How do you square that with the fact that many animals display homosexual tendencies just as they display heterosexual tendencies? How do you also square it with the fact that homosexuality also is documented in many ancient societies suggesting that it is a normal part of the human experience?
1. That is not true, I do not think it is a choice at all and I have not said that. I consider homosexuality to be a sexual deviation, ergo a personality disorder.

2. The existence of homosexual behaviour in other species does not mean they need to be put down so I am not sure what your point is. From the evolutionary point of view, Homo sapiens belongs to the same kingdom Animalia. There are many documented cases of Mammals suffering from mental disorders, therefore the cause could actually be the same.

3. Zoophilia, homosexual pedophilia and rape were also documented in many ancient societies – does this society consider them to be normal? If normal behaviour equals to natural occurrence, then everything is normal (mental disorders, diseases, intolerance).



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Melancholy
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Disorder is a normative concept. The only reason cancer is a classed as a medical "condition" (or whatever you may term it), or an abnormality, is because it is deemed bad to have it, and thus deemed desirable to treat. Otherwise, it is just as "normal" as breathing or as having an protruding belly button like a great many people (not myself). Disorder implies some sort of orderly way for the body to operate, yet there is no authoritative manual that tells us how our bodies ought to act. They simply act the way they do - no further story! There is nothing really "disordered" - the language is just useful in everyday life to describe undesirable ways in which the body operates.

Likewise with various learning disorders - they are perfectly natural and normal developments of the brain (a great many people experience the same degree of difficulty in learning stuff in particular ways - e.g. dyslexics), but they are "disorders" largely because a majority do not have them and they are not desirable. You could say the same thing about becoming a "goth", or having Downs Syndrome (one is a chosen attribute, the other unchosen - none are truly "disordered; merely undesirable for reasons of well-being). Our classification of these things as a disorder often involve a huge degree of normative judgements on natural, explicable phenomenon (chosen or unchosen).

So, when we strip away all these bizarre classification debates (chosen/unchosen? natural/unnatural? ordered/disordered?) the question comes down to whether it's normatively correct (or desirable) to treat gay people differently - you don't need to construct classification systems in order to answer that moral question - you'd merely be obfuscating. And when you consider people's welfare, dignity, and such like, the debate has already been won in favour of equal rights for gay people. Moral arguments rooted in some ramble about a mystical "natural propriety" dance around the criteria that we normally apply in everyday moral assessments - does it harm people? does it create unhappiness? does it cause pain? does it hurt our dignity? is it fair?

Are we entitled to grant some breathing space between paedophilia, zoophilia and homosexuality? Yes, because there are morally relevant differences that have been argued for ages. The reason we frown upon the first two categories is because (when they act upon their urges), they show a flagrant disregard for informed (second-order) consent, dignity and welfare. Otherwise, without the harmful acts associated with them, sure they are all just unchosen sexual preferences for which I cannot hold them morally accountable. If a homosexual were to rape somebody (or a paedophile, or an animal-lover), I'd apply the same standards as I would to an overly randy heterosexual who places his/her own interests above the wishes of his victim.
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Will95206
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#1309
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(Original post by Life_peer)
If you really believe in hippie dreams, I have no answer for you, but I suggest to think about what you wrote there: “I hope one day we will live in a world were we no longer tolerate…”

Eradicating intolerance with further oppressive intolerance is frankly stupid. Also, what gives you the authority to decide upon what is morally good? Apart from religions (which are ignored in philosophy, because there is currently no scientifically accepted way of proving the existence of an objective authority, i.e. God), there is no objective code and everything is decided arbitrarily, mainly based on statistical norms. Our species – in fact every species – is obviously disposed to not live in a perfect harmony and the prattle on equality just makes me sick, because it is so far from the truth that I can not even comprehend how can a sane person arrive to this conclusion. This absurd attitude just leads to spending millions to save an individual while thousands of them live on the streets or overpopulation which is further supported despite not having enough resources for sustainability.

There are differences – possibly everything in existence is dual in opposites. We can not be equal, because there are strong and weak ones, intelligent and stupid ones, tall and little ones, men and women, etc. We are extremely diverse and the “liberal” effort to enslave certain groups by forcefully projecting some decided values into them is disgusting.

If you really believe in tolerance, tolerate that some people can have different opinions! No one is chasing homosexuals with pitchforks. :rolleyes:

I am talking of the acceptance of homophobes of homosexuals. We have accepted you beliefs. In terms of tolerance liberal society have tolerance to an extend, not when minority groups are discriminated against as homosexuals are now.

I am also no hippy, the equality talk about no not the Equality of Outcome but the Equality of Opportunity. Even the leader of the RL Tory party is taking of the E of O in the form of- "The Land of Opportunity"...
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Melancholy
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Tolerance is quite an ambiguous word. What is tolerance? Would I let somebody chant homophobic slogans in the name of tolerance? Probably not - I would (I'd like to think) challenge it (i.e. I would be intolerant). But I wouldn't kill him for doing so (i.e. I would be tolerant). Tolerance is a degree notion (the triadic relationship would be something of the form: X is tolerant towards Y in respect of Z; X is free from Y to do Z). Not only that, but for almost every tolerant act there is an correlative intolerant aspect in that act. I tolerate people who have different views so I don't tolerate people who physically attack them. I tolerate people who physically attack people so I don't tolerate people who prevent them from doing so. In those respects, "tolerance" is quite like the word "freedom" in political discourse - it can be used in a certain way to support your position.

But sure, I'm intolerant (to a certain degree) of people who would seek to opine about gays being filthy, insofar as I would challenge them, I would remove them from my own property, I would even think of using state powers to prevent them from constantly verbally harassing people at a gay person's funeral using loudspeakers (think Westboro Baptist Church); but I wouldn't tolerate killing or even arresting people who make those statements.

I think there are heuristic devices that can be used as a litmus test to define the boundaries of toleration; but I think for now it is best to conclude that it is never the case that all toleration is good, nor that all intolerance is bad.

[/boring waffle]
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Birchington
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#1311
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#1311
I must be the only person who hasn't seen Breaking Bad. Is it worth a watch or overrated?
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nixonsjellybeans
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#1312
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(Original post by Birchington)
I must be the only person who hasn't seen Breaking Bad. Is it worth a watch or overrated?
Your not, me too. I may end up watching it but considering how overrated The Walking Dead is (which got pretty slow and boring at points) i'm skeptical of what people tell me to watch.
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Birchington
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(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
Your not, me too. I may end up watching it but considering how overrated The Walking Dead is (which got pretty slow and boring at points) i'm skeptical of what people tell me to watch.
Glad I'm not the only one! I tend to avoid American TV as a rule, it's usually massively overrated and series are often far too long.
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Jarred
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(Original post by That Bearded Man)
Loved the whole Jesse Walt bromance from the beginning, ALL the actors were superb I think, which is some achievement.
Yeah they do a great job of making the characters feel alive, combined with the good writing and directing et al. I never really feel like I'm watching a performance which is a great feeling.

(Original post by Birchington)
I must be the only person who hasn't seen Breaking Bad. Is it worth a watch or overrated?
(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
Your not, me too. I may end up watching it but considering how overrated The Walking Dead is (which got pretty slow and boring at points) i'm skeptical of what people tell me to watch.
For the first season or so I thought it was good, but not amazing. I could see straight away that it was well made all over, but I just didn't feel all that excited over it. I kept trying though and it did suddenly click for me, I think it probably needs time to get good, but that's common to a lot of shows. Now I'm really loving it.

(Original post by Birchington)
Glad I'm not the only one! I tend to avoid American TV as a rule, it's usually massively overrated and series are often far too long.
I used to think that but I've changed my mind over the past few years, I think it's generally better than the stuff we produce. The problem is they produce so much more of it that there's a lot of crap floating around, but the networks are usually ruthless enough to kill that stuff quickly, though that comes with it's own problems since every year without fail a network will come up with a generic drama which tries nothing new for fear of getting axed and gets cancelled after one season for boring people to death. But for every ten crocks of ****e like that, you'll find a diamond in the rough like Breaking Bad or The Sopranos.

The comedy is often a bit hit and miss though, particularly the massively popular recent ones. I don't think I've ever laughed at The Big Bang Theory or Two and a Half Men.

My only real problem with the stuff that we produce in this country is that it's all a bit samey. It could just be me that thinks it (it probably is) but we just don't seem to take enough risks, I always feel like I've seen everything we make before. American TV is so varied. One day I could be watching a man save SoCal from a nuclear bomb, the next I could be watching a magical time travelling jungle island with polar bears

Oh and I'm the opposite on the season length, I think our seasons are way too short Six episodes a series is not enough, I always feel hard done by.
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SciFiRory
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#1315
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#1315
new series of The News Quiz :yeah:
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barnetlad
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#1316
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(Original post by Birchington)
I must be the only person who hasn't seen Breaking Bad. Is it worth a watch or overrated?
You are not alone, I have not seen it though I know a number of people who rate it highly. Finding the time to sit and watch say a couple of episodes at once is always a challenge for any series if I have missed the beginning.
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MacDaddi
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Scary to think I've been around since the XIV Parliament too
Mechie
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#1318
(Original post by Smack)
Taxi home?
That would be crushingly expensive. If more nights out were held at the weekend instead of during the week I might be able to persuade someone to pick me up, but no.
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Cheese_Monster
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#1319
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(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
Your not, me too. I may end up watching it but considering how overrated The Walking Dead is (which got pretty slow and boring at points) i'm skeptical of what people tell me to watch.

(Original post by Birchington)
Glad I'm not the only one! I tend to avoid American TV as a rule, it's usually massively overrated and series are often far too long.
Ooh hipsters over here!

Let me give you the 101 on American TV, it's usually diabolical. But in the cases of The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad, you can't beat them, so watch them all before you sit with your thumb in your mouth.
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Life_peer
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(Original post by Cheese_Monster)
Ooh hipsters over here!

Let me give you the 101 on American TV, it's usually diabolical. But in the cases of The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad, you can't beat them, so watch them all before you sit with your thumb in your mouth.
I find The Walking Dead mediocre and increasingly irritating. The first series was great – interesting environment, lots of action and adventure, non-linear story, not completely predictable. Since then, it has been mainly about stupid irrational decisions that do not make any sense, petty wars, annoying cast, psychological problems, no objective, and completely boring conversations which are probably supposed to set the mood but I find myself just switching to other activities while they pass.

So, the American TV is mostly about having a good idea, putting some effort into making the first series, attracting fans, and then producing loads of far worse episodes to sell many ads. The typical business model of short-sighted management.

On the other hand, I appreciate series such as BBC's Sherlock far more – three episodes per 18 months, but they are completely worth it and I watch them closely without losing attention. The same with The IT Crowd – several episodes of quality content rather than ****loads of now rubbish The Big Bang Theory which has completely deviated from the original course of four nerdy guys doing scientific jokes next to stupid Penny to a soap opera of relationships, a submissive Jew and his irritating wife. Even Sheldon Cooper, PhD. is not an honest arse any more and has got a girlfriend with an unbelievably small forehead. Finally, the frequent laughter in reaction to terribly unfunny jokes and situations is just pathetic.

The American TV is just as their Elementary Sherlock rip off – not any good. I have not watched BB.
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