Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Maths Tutor
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#1361
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#1361
(Original post by Midlander)
No and I fail to see how this is relevant.
Don't you know that the anti-Independence Axis has been screaming loudly about Scotland being thrown out of the European Union if it 'separates' from the UK?

It doesn't seem to be worried that Scotland will be forced out anyway as a result of the Tory / UKIP In-Out referendum.
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cowsforsale
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#1362
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#1362
Noticing this doing the rounds on twitter.

Any thoughts?
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L i b
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#1363
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#1363
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
London can't even upgrade its sewage system without a raid on Scottish funds.
Ah, making stuff up again. You really ought to work out what the actual situation is before just repeating some rubbish from Joan McAlpine's press releases...

The sewerage upgrades in London are to be paid for by private money. The UK Government offered, however, a mechanism to manage risk and thus drive down costs. This, theoretically, allows for financial support - be it a loan, guarantee or any other form - should there be financial issues surrounding the project.

No actual money has been spent (or loaned, or anything else) under this possible scheme. The whole idea is to maximise private sector investment.
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MatureStudent36
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#1364
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#1364
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
London can't even upgrade its sewage system without a raid on Scottish funds.

Not a single penny that is spent for Scotland comes from revenue generated from England's resources.

Why are you telling porkies? That's such a blatant lie.
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Midlander
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#1365
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#1365
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Don't you know that the anti-Independence Axis has been screaming loudly about Scotland being thrown out of the European Union if it 'separates' from the UK?

It doesn't seem to be worried that Scotland will be forced out anyway as a result of the Tory / UKIP In-Out referendum.
If Scotland leaves the UK it will have to reapply for EU membership just like any newly formed nation. Your idol Salmond lied to the people about this and also lied about using taxpayers money for the consultation with those at the EU.


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MatureStudent36
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#1366
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#1366
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Who did you listen to, Which media did you read and which research did you carry out to reach that conclusion?

Surely you should present them to the whole nation so that it can show its gratitude to Alistair Darling for doing "a decent job as Chancellor".
I think he conducted himself quite well during the RBS crisis.

There's a nice independent documentary about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-_7X1dGyQ
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MatureStudent36
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#1367
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#1367
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Don't you know that the anti-Independence Axis has been screaming loudly about Scotland being thrown out of the European Union if it 'separates' from the UK?

It doesn't seem to be worried that Scotland will be forced out anyway as a result of the Tory / UKIP In-Out referendum.
So many assumptions?

1) That's relying on the Torys getting in again.
2) Why aren't other political parties (Including Labour/LibDem and the SNP) asking the people in a referendum?
3) Who says we're being forced out. From what I see this is a bargaining chip to repatriate more powers to a democratically elected body. After all, we've (well SNP supporters mainly) been bleating on about oil/fish/minimum alchol prcing etc. Wer can kiss goodbye to control over those things to the EU. Or do you really believe Nicola can negotiate all of those back from a position of weakness?
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MatureStudent36
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#1368
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#1368
(Original post by L i b)
Ah, making stuff up again. You really ought to work out what the actual situation is before just repeating some rubbish from Joan McAlpine's press releases...

The sewerage upgrades in London are to be paid for by private money. The UK Government offered, however, a mechanism to manage risk and thus drive down costs. This, theoretically, allows for financial support - be it a loan, guarantee or any other form - should there be financial issues surrounding the project.

No actual money has been spent (or loaned, or anything else) under this possible scheme. The whole idea is to maximise private sector investment.
Would this be the same Joan McAlpine who says that any Scot not supporting the SNP is anti Scottish?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-16545340

What an odious woman.
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MatureStudent36
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#1369
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#1369
(Original post by CatSnads)
I find it really difficult to believe that you think 'at heart we are one'. Most Scottish people would identify themselves as Scottish. I have no problem with English people (although they will have to endure some ****ging for being English, they would have to endure it for something else if they were Scottish) but I am not one of them. If I don't identify myself as being British, and neither does most of the country (Scotland), then how can you say were are one at heart? My mum's mum is English, and my mum was born in Harrogate, but she grew up in Scotland. She gets quite aggravated if you call her English, because she identifies herself as Scottish. Although the number of Scots identifying themselves as British has risen a lot recently, in September 2012 more than 80% called themselves Scottish. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...selves-1341439
He has a viewpoint and therefore has a right to be heard. It's called democracy.

You may not identify your self as British.

There's a lot more who dont. It's identity politics and it always rears it's in economic downturns.

Less than a third of Flakland Islanders identify as British
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/se...itish-identity
Yet have voted to stay Brish.

Gibraltairians identify as Gibraltarian, yet wish to remain British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibralt...ferendum,_2002

Infact, I'm sure had the daily Records poll been conducted in different parts of the country then it would have had similar results for .
Glaswegian
Geordie
Manc
Cockney
Norfolkian
Scouser
West Country
Welsh
Cornish et al.

Infact you can identify as whoever or whatever you want to. Many LGBT people identify with Queer Nationalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_nationalism

Do you think the Queer Republic of Brighton should go it alone?

What you are advocating is just identity politics with a high degree of minority influence.

I'm not saying we can't be Scottish, nobody is. But that's what I liuke about Britain. It's not just one homogenous grouping. It's made up a wide, diverse cultural fabric bonded together with a sense of common purpose, shared identity, the same fears, aspirations and hopes.

You may want to try and identify your mother as Yorkshire. Take some time to understand her background, and not show ignorance in the cultural diversity of England and the identity politics involved there.

Overall though. I'm not bothered with how you choose to identify yourself. I'm more worried about the future, and I don't like what the SNP's idea of a future really is. It's not clear, it's far from risk free and it's not consistent and changes from month to month depending on what groupings the SNP is targetting. He's already turned his back on the Republicans, Anti EU, Anti NATO and Environmentalists who supported him.
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MatureStudent36
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#1370
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#1370
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
I guess you extend that stupidity to the 47% of Scottish voters who voted for him at the last Scottish election?

I guess the 53% of the Scottish voters who didn't vote for him can't wait for Lamont or Davidson or Rennie to take over as First Minister?

Perhaps you could remind us of the latest popularity scores of these 4 party leaders?


Blair was quite popular.

So's this lovely woman. Although she's taken a hit recently.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/art...on-soars--poll

The world moves on. So forgive me for wanting to jeopardise my future just because of one snap moment in time.


care to explain if he's so popular why support fir seperation is still stuck at 30% for the last thirty years.
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Maths Tutor
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#1371
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#1371
(Original post by Midlander)
If you did a national poll asking 'Are English people arrogant?', it would return more than half saying yes.
(Original post by Midlander)
Probably more reliable than whoever told you Scotland hates being in the UK Olympic team. I see you have failed to substantiate this.
If you did a national poll asking 'Do you hate Scotland being in the UK Olympic Team?', it would return more than three quarters saying yes.
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MatureStudent36
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#1372
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#1372
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
If you did a national poll asking 'Do you hate Scotland being in the UK Olympic Team?', it would return more than three quarters saying yes.

Would it? Care to show me this poll? And Internet polls don't count. I would like one conducted properly.
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Maths Tutor
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#1373
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#1373
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
London can't even upgrade its sewage system without a raid on Scottish funds.
(Original post by L i b)
Ah, making stuff up again. You really ought to work out what the actual situation is before just repeating some rubbish from Joan McAlpine's press releases...

The sewerage upgrades in London are to be paid for by private money. The UK Government offered, however, a mechanism to manage risk and thus drive down costs. This, theoretically, allows for financial support - be it a loan, guarantee or any other form - should there be financial issues surrounding the project.

No actual money has been spent (or loaned, or anything else) under this possible scheme. The whole idea is to maximise private sector investment.
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Why are you telling porkies? That's such a blatant lie.
http://www.scottishtimes.com/scottish_news_cameron

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-London-sewers

"Recently, the Westminster government used the UK Reserve Fund to pay for the cost of upgrading the London Sewers, as well as cutting South-East England's water bills by roughly £50 per person.

Every Country in the UK pays taxes into the reserve fund.

The issue with this; is that UK Reserve Fund is only supposed to be used for projects that 'Benefit the UK as a whole' and normally to pay for this, they would have had to use DEFRA. DEFRA operates similarly to the UK Reserve Fund, but under it, the devolved nations of the UK receive compensation for the use of their nation's tax payers money.

The compensation would come as a percentage under the Barnett Formula;

I don't have the figures for Wales and N.I. but Scotland would be compensated some £400m.

However, since they used the UK Reserve Fund, the devolved nations are not entitled to any compensation, despite the fact that their tax money, as well as England's, it being used to fund the upgrade to the London sewers and the cut to South-East England's water bills.

Quick edit: Wales would have been due £100m, which the Welsh Government states they wished to put to use in strengthening the flood defences around Wales coast."

WHO IS "making stuff up again" and WHO IS "telling porkies" and a "blatant lie"?

NOT ME for sure.
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Maths Tutor
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#1374
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#1374
(Original post by Midlander)
Police figures tell only part of the story
Those police figures were the very figures spinned by the anti-Independence Axis to present a 17% decline in anti-English attacks as an increase.

That is why MatureStudent36 was TERRIFIED of linking to the one source which was telling the truth.
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Midlander
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#1375
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#1375
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
If you did a national poll asking 'Do you hate Scotland being in the UK Olympic Team?', it would return more than three quarters saying yes.
You're talking so far out your backside it's unreal. It wouldn't take much for Scottish athletes to refuse to compete.

I note you have stayed quiet on Salmond's lies on EU membership.


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Midlander
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#1376
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#1376
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Those police figures were the very figures spinned by the anti-Independence Axis to present a 17% decline in anti-English attacks as an increase.

That is why MatureStudent36 was TERRIFIED of linking to the one source which was telling the truth.
Stop calling any non SNP member as part of some 'Axis'. It's as childish as 'Bitter Together'. UPPER CASE.


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Maths Tutor
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#1377
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#1377
(Original post by Midlander)
Are you suggesting I carry bigoted beliefs towards immigrants to the UK?
You do believe that the Scots carry bigoted beliefs towards English immigrants to Scotland, don't you?
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MatureStudent36
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#1378
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#1378
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
http://www.scottishtimes.com/scottish_news_cameron

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-London-sewers

"Recently, the Westminster government used the UK Reserve Fund to pay for the cost of upgrading the London Sewers, as well as cutting South-East England's water bills by roughly £50 per person.

Every Country in the UK pays taxes into the reserve fund.

The issue with this; is that UK Reserve Fund is only supposed to be used for projects that 'Benefit the UK as a whole' and normally to pay for this, they would have had to use DEFRA. DEFRA operates similarly to the UK Reserve Fund, but under it, the devolved nations of the UK receive compensation for the use of their nation's tax payers money.

The compensation would come as a percentage under the Barnett Formula;

I don't have the figures for Wales and N.I. but Scotland would be compensated some £400m.

However, since they used the UK Reserve Fund, the devolved nations are not entitled to any compensation, despite the fact that their tax money, as well as England's, it being used to fund the upgrade to the London sewers and the cut to South-East England's water bills.

Quick edit: Wales would have been due £100m, which the Welsh Government states they wished to put to use in strengthening the flood defences around Wales coast."

WHO IS "making stuff up again" and WHO IS "telling porkies" and a "blatant lie"?

NOT ME for sure.
You're probably not making it up but whoever wrote the Internet blog is. You see the Internet is a wonderful thing, but there's no control on it. So basically the scottish times could be written by a guy called derek from his bedroom. More than likely from a guy called Connor who's being funded by the yescampaign.

now this is a straightforward trick of public relations. One person says something so another person says it claiming to be a newspaper. It's called third person reinforcement.


It's not a new concept. Infact Muslim fundamentalists use it. One person says something. A website backs it up. Somebody sees it and believes it. Result. Self radicalised jelly head.

so can you please quote reputable media and not websites of dubious background.
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Maths Tutor
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#1379
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#1379
(Original post by Midlander)
I was in fact referring to money allocated prior to this.
Why don't you provide the details then?

You did ask the question numerous times in an attempt to attack the SNP government for not spending funds it had not even received.
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MatureStudent36
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#1380
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#1380
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Why don't you provide the details then?

You did ask the question numerous times in an attempt to attack the SNP government for not spending funds it had not even received.


I found this on the Internet so it must be true.

Its about the lizard people.

http://rense.com/general56/liz.htm



hears another website about it.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=aA46c...%3DaA46csg4A84
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