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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Nice strawman. That has nothing to do with his argument in the slightest, which was that the criticism of Israel for using disproportionate force is silly, as if they should simply accept more casualties themselves for the sake of turning it into some sort of gentlemen's game. It's not against international law to be really good at waging war.
    It is silly because they have no right over that land at all and consequently can't use any force let alone excessive. I don't think you comprehend the situation at all, it's not something you can misconstrue when that defies historical realities.

    Clearly your bias in support of Israel is blinding you so let give you a simple analogy. What if I came into your house and attempted to steal your furniture and everything you own—you catch me in the act and attack me with the nearest thing (so as to remove me from your house) and I run to the kitchen, grab a knife and essentially 'defend' myself. It's not really against any criminal law for me to defend myself either but will my argument hold up in court? No. Maybe I came with gloves that have good grip and therefore increase my agility—assume this is an analogy for the iron dome. Will I take my gloves off? No, this is not a gentlemen's game. If you can't understand this then consider yourself a Zionist because Zionism is fundamentally criminality conflated with defiance against the veridical.
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    The anger and hate the Israeli's bring upon themselves is incredible:

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    (Original post by HeavyTeddy)
    I just find it sad tbh that despite the statistics, despite seeing Israeli brutality, despite seeing the horrific scenes in Gaza, despite having a somewhat decent historical understanding of the issue, people will STILL support a disgusting occupation. Just goes to show how many morally bankrupt people are on TSR

    Edit: Obviously Gaza.
    Most of these people aren't really supporters of Israel. They are just anti Palestine/Muslim.
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    (Original post by Fact)
    It is silly because they have no right over that land at all and consequently can't use any force let alone excessive. I don't think you comprehend the situation at all, it's not something you can misconstrue when that defies historical realities.
    No, I perfectly comprehend the situation, I simply, God forbid, have a differing opinion to you. The UN charter authorises foreign military intervention in the case of self-defence- meaning Israel is well within it's rights to use force to stop and prevent Hamas rocket attacks.

    (Original post by Fact)
    Clearly your bias in support of Israel is blinding you so let give you a simple analogy. What if I came into your house and attempted to steal your furniture and everything you own—you catch me in the act and attack me with the nearest thing (so as to remove me from your house) and I run to the kitchen, grab a knife and essentially 'defend' myself. It's not really against any criminal law for me to defend myself either but will my argument hold up in court? No.
    Bull**** analogy. If you want to talk about international law then lets talk about international law. If you want to talk English criminal law then lets talk about English criminal law. Comprehend the situation yourself before accusing others of not being able to. As it is your anology is broken anyway, because that wouldn't even classify as 'self-defence' legally.
    Anyway, the current conflict started after Hamas murdered three Israelis, and then in the aftermath of that began firing rockets into Israel.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    It is pretty clear to anyone that a lot of news outlets (especially BBC) are strongly biased towards Israel.
    I was watching the BBC coverage of Gaza a couple of nights ago and I don't believe that there was a strong bias in favour of Israel at all. For example, they mentioned that the Israeli death toll was not comparable to the Palestinian one.

    I remember there was a psychology experiment where they showed the same news clip to pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli students. The pro-Palestinians said that the news coverage was biased in favour of Israel, and the pro-Israelis said that it was biased in favour of the Palestinians.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    The anger and hate the Israeli's bring upon themselves is incredible:

    Palestinians with the jew controlled Palestine must increase birthrate to outnumber jews, then the jews will be faced with defeat or overcrowding
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    Theres a video on YouTube where a rocket is launched from Israel and strikes Palestine, the dirty Israelites just stand there laughing. No one, no matter what race or religion, should cheer on someones death.

    They are, if not worse, the same as the Nazis.
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    Palestinian civilian is shot dead by an Israeli sniper http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rlier-hit.html @MailOnline

    For once, it's not DM nonsense. Watch the video. How can you support this?
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    (Original post by Acidy)
    In my opinion the following should be considered:

    There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world or 23% of the World's population.

    There's are 14-15 million jews in the world and are less than 0.1% of the world's population.

    It's easy to hate the minority, especially when they stand up for themselves against the majority. This is the nature of human struggle.

    If you can't view a situation objectively, reason and come to a reasonable conclusion about the current situation presented by a lot of the present anti-zionist media. You're probably not that smart.

    Remember who owns the majority of the World's Wealth
    - after a History's worth of persecution
    - relative to their population (0.1%) (jesus christ.)

    Do you see Rabbi's with Suicide vests walking into ASDA with the intention of inflicting harm? No. The truth is this is not within the nature of their religion and to think of Israel as a parable to Nazi Germany or otherwise is quite-frankly pathetic.

    The fact is, and most of you won't be able to understand this, having been brainwashed with anti-logic conditioning.

    Jews contribute the most to society and are the most peaceful nation when they are not being bombarded with religions that wish to crucify them. It's the survival of Israel against the world and nothing more. Would you rather they voluntarily lay down their lives and be slaughtered like sheep for no other purpose then to make the fundamentalist -terrorist middle east feel better about themselves?

    This is probably going to sound a bit controversial, but Hey-ho. The fact remains, the majority of countries and it's civilian populations have nothing going for them. Keep in mind who gives the most contributions to the world, perhaps even google it.
    Israel has violated 28 UN Security Council Resolutions, which are binding under international law.

    They have also violated 100 UN General Assembly Resolutions, which are non-binding but express the disapproval of the international community.

    They have also defied the International Court of Justice by continuing to build a wall segregating the West Bank.

    It's not a matter of hating on Jews. It's a matter of hating on a state which is committing crimes against humanity and displaying contempt for the rule of law.
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    (Original post by Wilsoncw1997)
    Just want to do a poll since this is the hottest topic as of right now.

    My stance:


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-3690179956001

    You are supporting the innocent slaughter of children, women and men. You sick *******.
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    (Original post by Wilsoncw1997)
    Spot on.

    Are you stupid or what, believing this propaganda bull****. The death toll, according to one paper, is in a proportion 192 palestinians dead for every 1 Israeli. But yet again we have idiots that can't be arsed to do there research, look up on the statistics or actually look beyond the superficial.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    No, I perfectly comprehend the situation, I simply, God forbid, have a differing opinion to you. The UN charter authorises foreign military intervention in the case of self-defence- meaning Israel is well within it's rights to use force to stop and prevent Hamas rocket attacks.
    It's not self-defence when it's against legitimate self-defence. Hamas was founded during the intifada against the Israeli occupation. They didn't wake up one morning and decide they want to ruin Israeli lives. The actions of Hamas are a direct reflection of the suffering Israelis have inflicted on Palestinians since its inception.

    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Bull**** analogy. If you want to talk about international law then lets talk about international law. If you want to talk English criminal law then lets talk about English criminal law. Comprehend the situation yourself before accusing others of not being able to.
    Anyway, the current conflict started after Hamas murdered three Israelis, and then in the aftermath of that began firing rockets into Israel.
    No. The current conflict started when Zionists from the around world convened maliciously to cause a suffering against an innocent and unsuspecting people. I'm sure it gives you a sense of moral legitimacy to frame this recent conflict conveniently in a specific time scope when again, reality is not in congruence with it. Israelis kidnap Palestinian children almost as a past-time yet the kidnapping of 3 teenagers (whose kidnapping I don't want to detract any rightful grief from) is more important to you?

    More than 200 Palestinian children are being held in Israeli prisons. At least two of the jails where Palestinian children are detained – Ofer in the West Bank and Al Jalame in Israel – are supplied with security systems by G4S.
    Several organisations, including Unicef in 2013, have documented the ill-treatment of the children inside these prisons. Unicef reported that the abuse of Palestinian youngsters trapped in the Israeli prison system is "widespread, systematic and institutionalised". At its AGM last year, a number of concerned shareholders questioned the G4S board about the company's complicity in the detention and abuse of Palestinian children, eliciting the promise of a review of the current situation.
    You expect the families of those children to not want to exact any revenge? Palestinian resistance movements have a history of kidnapping Israelis with the intent of trading them for the many Palestinians locked up and left to rot in Israeli's many prisons. Not that I condone or support kidnapping but this is the reality of being occupied.
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    7 IDF soldiers evacuated to hospitals in the last 10 minutes from Gaza.

    A German-Palestinian family of 7 people have been annihilated by an Israeli airstrike.
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    So much for the bull**** about going to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties: http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/...-gaza-civilian

    The Israeli military just shot a Gazan man trying to reach his family, during an announced ceasefire.

    He was with a group of municipality workers and international human rights defenders who were attempting to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighborhood.

    “We all just watched a man murdered in front of us. He was trying to reach his family in Shujaiya, he had not heard from them and was worried about them. They shot him, and then continued to fire as he was on the ground. We had no choice but to retreat. We couldn’t reach him due to the artillery fire and then he stopped moving.”

    The Israel military has also shelled Red Crescent ambulances as they attempted to retrieve injured people in the Shujaiya neighbourhood, east of Gaza City. A ceasefire was announced, during which injured and dead people, could be evacuated from the area, in which at least 60 people have been killed today.
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    I think anybody with a heart is on Gaza's side.
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    (Original post by Yafman)
    I am absolutely disgusted at the amount of pro Israel threads here. You don't have to be muslim to support palestine just human
    100%. Most sense I've seen on here thus far.
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    John Kerry has taken Qatar and Turkey out of the game with his insistence that Egypt be the one to broker a ceasefire.

    Personally, I think he has a difficult job but it is the action of a man who doesn't give a crap about the humanitarian crisis.


    I guess HAMAS will now start working on the Egyptians (they've started that actually) and will end up with more favourable terms. I expect critical reactions from Turkey (Erdogan has an election coming up) and Qatar for the dismissal of their ceasefire proposal even though the final version of the ceasefire terms (brokered by Egypt) will look quite similar to the one originally presented by Turkey/Qatar.

    The Arab League will now swing behind this ceasefire initiative and there will be more scathing attacks on Israel the longer this aggression goes on (as Kuwait has done).
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    Not to mention being killed for collecting sticks upon the Sabbath, or weaving the wrong kind of clothes.
    Yep, not to mention those. I am glad that I was born post-Jesus instead of pre-Jesus.

    Moses was a complete and utter tyrant who nobody should look up to in my opinion. (Assuming he actually existed.)
    I understand, though I think that judging him by today's standards is a bit unfair, since he lived pre-Jesus.
    I also think this is probably true, unfortunately. But I don't see why it should be a block to reforming mainstream Islam. From my perspective, believing in the Qu'ran (or other holy books) is quite insane already, so making it say what you want it to say shouldn't be that big of a deal. And I dispute that moderate Jews and Christians follow their holy books entirely to the letter either (especially Jews).
    Good points.

    Personally, I think Christians should follow Jesus' teachings to love more, myself included. As for the Jews, I do think that more are growing to appreciate Jesus Christ. The earliest Christians were all Jews, until Peter received a vision from God that Gentiles can accept Yeshua (Jesus) too. There are Jewish Christians today as well.

    The sad thing about the relationship between Jews and Christianity is that some Gentile Christians have stripped the Jewishness away from Jesus, which is a grave error. They have horribly persecuted the Jewish people, which is dead wrong. Jesus Christ is Jewish and is the Jewish Messiah, though many Jewish people do not believe so, which is their right to believe what they believe is true/not true.

    Yes, I used to think that pacifism was the only moral option to take, but it seems to me that absolute pacifism defeats its own purpose; allowing evil to exist could be a worse crime than accidentally causing suffering to innocent people while defeating it.
    Well, I wonder if it depends on the kind of enemy. For example, Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. made very wise decisions to not fight with weapons and kill people. I don't know about Gandhi, but I do know that if MLK Jr. had decided to take a violent route, a horrible bloodbath would have ensued and it's possible that would have set back equality in the USA between people of different skin colors for a long time. It was in the best interest of everyone that Martin Luther King Jr. chose love and nonviolence as his weapons against inequality.

    I still think if Israel chose love and nonviolence, and instead just focused on protecting themselves instead of attacking, that could put out the fire of Hamas, you know what I mean?

    Martin Luther King was a great man, but his form of protest only worked because his enemy was rational and believed in democracy.
    That is a very good point. Rationality in an enemy is very helpful to make that enemy no more an enemy.
    Consider this: Adolf Hitler met in 1937 with Lord Halifax, and suggested Britain should assassinate Mohandas Gandhi as well as any of his supporters, in order to retain their rule over India. No doubt if the German tyranny was in charge of India, that would have happened. Britain, being much more rational and compassionate than Hitler's Germany, proved an ideal enemy for Gandhi to negotiate non-violently with, gaining independence a decade later.
    Good point.
    Non-violent protest accomplishes nothing unless your enemy has fundamentally good intentions.
    I have never thought of that before, but you are right.


    The thing is, there will always be people like that in the world, and when they appear, it is best to shoot them down as fast as possible, rather than let them acquire power and leverage over the world.
    Do you think that irrational people can evolve into rational people through education and love? I hope they can, and I think some do, though how many or the ratio is hard to tell.
    This is especially true nowadays, when a large part of the world is democratic and pretty much stable, for the first time in human history.
    Very good points. You have a very good head on your shoulders, as my Dad would say.

    I still think it would be in the best interest of both the Palestinians and Israel to stop with the violence and to at least respect each other's right to exist. However, the question is: are both sides rational?

    Do you think either side is being rational at the moment? For Israel's part, I can't even begin to understand being surrounded by hostile neighbors. As an American, I enjoy peaceful neighbors. However, you do have a point concerning the fighting in that the one of the reasons México lives in peace with the USA is because after the USA fought with Spain, the USA took away some of Mexican land, and didn't give it back... In a way, Israel is being kinder than the USA was to México...

    However, Mexicans nowadays don't tend to have a problem with the USA. Many want to immigrate to the USA, or at least enjoy good relations with their norther neighbor. The Palestinians don't have the same outlook, and I think one reason is due to Islam.

    For the Palestinian's part, it would be a great surprise to me if the Native Americans for example wanted the land of their forefathers back. Sadly, the Native Americans did not escape to other countries. Most died due to sickness, others due to war with the European immigrants. Personally, I wish that the Palestinians had embraced the Jewish survivors of the holocaust who immigrated back to the land of their forefathers. However, they didn't. If they had though, that would have been incredibly awesome.
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    LOL this thread is absolutely teeming with Zionist nutcases. Quick retreat.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Israel.

    Unless we expect Israel to just put up with Hamas firing rockets at their civilians, we cannot expect them to do nothing. And what they have done is made more effort to avoid civilian deaths than any other belligerent in history. There would be far fewer civilian deaths if Hamas didn't treat them like chaff. They cower behind women and children knowing the Israelis will either avert their fire or grant them a propaganda victory. So Israel are caught between a rock and a hard place, but they know their first duty is to protect their people. As the nation which bombed Dresden, we cannot really speak from any moral high-ground.

    Or maybe all the Jews should just go 'home', right?
    I feel incredibly sorry for all those of you who genuinely believe that Israel's aggression is only an act of defence. Israel has a deeper agenda you guys don't seem to have fathomed. Until you do, it'd be better for you to shut your infernal traps, instead of desperately attempt to justify Israel's actions by appealing to logical fallacies: to quoque, strawman, etc; there is simply no logical justification for Israel's actions.
 
 
 
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