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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Congratulations on your brilliant refutations of my arguments.
    :king1:
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    Utter BS.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Err. I don't think so. We can look at Somalia for example, After you got your ass handed to you in the 90s, a decade later the Islamic Courts managed finally to bring calm and order to that state, what does America do? yep, you guessed it, overthrows them.



    Yeah I totally agree with you on that point. Colonialism ****** up the world, yet America continues to **** up the world.
    Awww, you're breaking my tiny little yankee heart. Especially when you make things up about America overthrowing the Somali government. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by roots)
    Fundamentally illiberal? If we were so illiberal you wouldn't have made it here, everyone would be a Muslim and since heritage and tradition is so important to Brits especially, you'd certainly be a Muslim today.
    I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
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    (Original post by roots)
    I'mnot attacking you.

    So there are absolutely no reasons for violence. No cause. Peoepl just want to be violent?
    I told you, they're violent because they're illiberal.

    (Original post by roots)
    Muslims always start it, don't they. :rolleyes:
    They don't start it all the time but when they do start it they insist on using tactics repugnant to the mind of any modern person, illiberal or liberal.

    (Original post by roots)
    Fundamentally illiberal? If we were so illiberal you wouldn't have made it here, everyone would be a Muslim and since heritage and tradition is so important to Brits especially, you'd certainly be a Muslim today.

    Why don't you read what i've written.
    If you are suggesting that the Islamic world isn't illiberal because if it was it would have beaten the West and occupied it and turned its posterity to Islam you are sorely mistaken. You might be up on your theology but your history is appalling.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    It is not a contradiction, I argued that there are atrocities committed in the name of Islam and I have argued that saying 'that's not islamic' doesn't negate the atrocities. Is that too ******* complicated for you?
    Noone is saying it does negate atrocities. The point is that it is wrong of people to hear of an atrocity committed by Muslims and start shouting Islam, repeatedly.
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    (Original post by roots)
    Noone is saying it does negate atrocities. The point is that it is wrong of people to hear of an atrocity committed by Muslims and start shouting Islam, repeatedly.
    What if Muslims who commit atrocities defend their actions on the basis of Islam eg the July 7 bombers?
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    And when Islam has been absolved of all the atrocities committed in its name and has lulled the Liberal world into believing its innocence, that's when Muslims can start committing the real atrocities. That's what they've done in Southeast Asia and that's what they will do everywhere else in the world.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Please understand two vital facts that you seem to have skipped over.

    1. Japan declared war on America
    2. Germany declared war on America

    So pick out some countries where America tried to aid for positive reasons (eg. South Korea) and messed up. There are some, I will grant you that.
    Japan declared war on America after the US led and international movement to isolate Japan economically and thus force them to withdraw from China. Primarily the USA plan was to cut off credit to the Japanese which would prevent them from being able to purchase petroleum. Japan received petroleum (an absolutely vital economic and military commodity, then as it is now) from three sources: The USA, Dutch east indies (Indonesia) and Burma (British controlled in the 1940's).

    I concede with you on the Nazi Germany part.
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    I live in Egypt and we're all happy together.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Japan declared war on America after the US led and international movement to isolate Japan economically and thus force them to withdraw from China. Primarily the USA plan was to cut off credit to the Japanese which would prevent them from being able to purchase petroleum. Japan received petroleum (an absolutely vital economic and military commodity, then as it is now) from three sources: The USA, Dutch east indies (Indonesia) and Burma (British controlled in the 1940's).

    I concede with you on the Nazi Germany part.
    Awww, poor Japan was isolated economically after invading China and murdering millions!
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    [QUOTE=Bagration]I told you, they're violent because they're illiberal.[quote]

    Why don't you elaborate?

    They don't start it all the time but when they do start it they insist on using tactics repugnant to the mind of any modern person, illiberal or liberal.
    Why don't you elaborate?

    Doesn't dropping bombs from the sky horrify you? Or are we all so used to it. If you lived 200 years from now, would you be calling modern warfare repugnant to the mind.

    Is modern warfare nice? It is more destructive and cowardly.

    A person will defend himself, does he need to buy jet planes before he can do so. Is it repugnant to the mind that he defends himself with all he can while someone drops a large bomb over his home. How can the person in the plane believe that man to be doing something repugnant.

    If you are suggesting that the Islamic world isn't illiberal because if it was it would have beaten the West and occupied it and turned its posterity to Islam you are sorely mistaken. You might be up on your theology but your history is appalling.
    Why am i mistaken. If we are so illiberal. Then why didn't we force everyone into Islam.
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    (Original post by roots)
    Noone is saying it does negate atrocities. The point is that it is wrong of people to hear of an atrocity committed by Muslims and start shouting Islam, repeatedly.
    So when I hear of a young woman being stoned to death by muslims, in a muslim ******** at the request of a muslim court using muslim laws all publicly approved by the imam, I'm the one at fault for thinking that it's a problem with Islam?
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Awww, poor Japan was isolated economically after invading China and murdering millions!
    Again Japan declared war on China, America to that point was isolationist so please don't bring up the moral high ground trash, if the cared so much about Japan "murdering millions" they would've done something earlier. America as usual found itself involved in wars that had nothing to do with it. Clearly America's major concern was Japan's supremacy in the pacific not the deaths of innocent people, otherwise it wouldn't of used Nuclear Weapons.
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    I have to say I'm not sure how accurate that source is, but I agree with the website the OP posted saying Islam is one of THE most intolerant religions today. I can't think of another group of religious people that would threaten people with death for insulting a dead schizophrenic :no: I know muslims constantly harp on about it being a minority of muslims who are extreme, but jesus christ that minority doesn't have cause problems...
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Again Japan declared war on China, America to that point was isolationist so please don't bring up the moral high ground trash, if the cared so much about Japan "murdering millions" they would've done something earlier. America as usual found itself involved in wars that had nothing to do with it. Clearly America's major concern was Japan's supremacy in the pacific not the deaths of innocent people, otherwise it wouldn't of used Nuclear Weapons.
    Right, isolationist America was really striving for world power!

    In the end, it doesn't matter what the motivation was. Japan got what it deserved. And it attacked us first. And what do nuclear weapons have to do with anything? We would have won the war and been a power in the Pacific regardless of whether we used them.

    And who gives a crap? Japan is one country that we "stuck our nose in" that happens to be thriving today.

    Oh and lastly, you're the king of taking threads off-topic.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Awww, you're breaking my tiny little yankee heart. Especially when you make things up about America overthrowing the Somali government. :rolleyes:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/13/alqaida.usa
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    (Original post by roots)
    Then why didn't we force everyone into Islam.
    But you are forcing people into Islam, or at least forcing them to stay in Islam. For example, those who desire to leave Islam are treated as criminals and punished in an array of Muslim countries, often with the death penalty.

    Secondly, the fact that you are unwilling and/or unable to 'force everyone into Islam' does not mean that Islam and Muslims in general are not illiberal. Liberalism is the belief in the importance of individual freedom, and Islam is a complete antithesis to this principle on issues such as sexual morality, freedom of religion, free speech and etc.
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    (Original post by roots)
    Why don't you elaborate?
    Liberalism is the rejection of violence. Islam is fundamentally violent. What's the punishment for apostasy in Islam?

    (Original post by roots)
    Doesn't dropping bombs from the sky horrify you? Or are we all so used to it. If you lived 200 years from now, would you be calling modern warfare repugnant to the mind.

    Is modern warfare nice? It is more destructive and cowardly.

    A person will defend himself, does he need to buy jet planes before he can do so. Is it repugnant to the mind that he defends himself with all he can while someone drops a large bomb over his home. How can the person in the plane believe that man to be doing something repugnant.
    Almost all modern militaries aim to reduce civilian casualties because wasting munitions on civilians is military inefficiency and also sometimes because its unacceptable at home. In this sense, all attacks on civilians by western or russian militaries in combat zones are accidental. It wasn't accidental when Chechnyan militants took over a school in Beslan, or when British militants bombed tube stations and buses in London, or when Pakistani militants attacked hotels in Mumbai.

    Modern warfare is hardly cowardly. At Height 776 near the Argun River Gorge, a company of Russian VDV were surrounded by a force ten times their size and were wiped out to a man. Where they cowards? Flying aircraft is an extremely dangerous job. Just ask the Russian helicopter pilots in Afghanistan after American supplied the Muslims there with advanced surface to air missiles.

    (Original post by roots)
    Why am i mistaken. If we are so illiberal. Then why didn't we force everyone into Islam.
    You tried, and failed (surely you've heard of the Ottoman Empire...), and then realised that from that moment on it would be impossible. Why didn't Hitler declare war on Poland in 1934? Because he couldn't win. Not wanting to start a war is not the same as not wanting to fight one.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Japan declared war on America after the US led and international movement to isolate Japan economically and thus force them to withdraw from China. Primarily the USA plan was to cut off credit to the Japanese which would prevent them from being able to purchase petroleum. Japan received petroleum (an absolutely vital economic and military commodity, then as it is now) from three sources: The USA, Dutch east indies (Indonesia) and Burma (British controlled in the 1940's).

    I concede with you on the Nazi Germany part.
    No, it wasn't Burma (Japan desired to control Burma because it was the method by which allied support crept into China after Japan took all of China's ports) it was actually Malaya and British Borneo (and the DEI and the USA, obviously) that Japan desired to control. Anyway the reason the USA and Britain embargo'd Japan was because Japan was being blatantly imperialistic and because it was a threat to them, both perfectly good reasons to do so.
 
 
 
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