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    I'm fed up with everything.

    The violent students, the lame ass politicians, all their question dodging, all the media hype, all the posh people thinking students are all nobs. and so on and so on
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    No, poor students get a much higher maintenance grant under the new scheme and this does not have to be paid back, also they get upto two years free tuition. The new system is much fairer to poor students than the current system.
    Its only better for the very poor though. The people who get free school meals. Everyone else will pay more than they would under the current system.
    And even the "upto 2 years free" thing for the very poor was only brought in because of the pressure that has been put on the lib dems.

    (Original post by NightWatch)
    The funnier bits are the middle class 'educated' DM readers who couldn't argue a good point if it slapped them in the face. They all follow the DM slanting like sheep and parrot the same 'students have no morals and none of them deserve an education because of this the low life rats as if i'm paying taxes for their education' despite the fact half of them probably got into uni for free in the first place.

    Guess I deserve it for reading the daily mail though.
    I can understand where the tax argument comes from. But it has two main problems.

    1 - An awful lot of people take more money out of the public purse through services, schools, health etc etc than they actually pay in tax. So technically their tax isn't even paying for themselves, let alone the university education of anyone else.

    2 - If you take that argument about education, where does it stop?
    I don't use public transport so the government shouldn't subsidise it?
    I don't get ill so I don't want my taxes paying for the NHS?
    My kids are going to a private school so why should my taxes pay for the local state school.
    etc etc.

    (I know you aren't the one bringing up the tax point, but a few people have )
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    Yeah, cut places so less people get the opportunity to get a graduate job and earn £100k more than non graduates- elitism works so much better, and by the way mortgages have to be paid back, uni debt only gets paid back if and when you earn over £21k, doesn't sound like a mortgage to me.
    You really believe that garbage that ALL graduates have a chance of earning that much more? :lol: And hold your ponies a minute.......it's not "elitism", it's common sense. It's a much better idea to clear out the doss courses that don't add value to our economy and cut uni places in line with the budget shortfall rather than jacking up the fees to £9,000. What's happening NOW is elitism!

    Re-read your last sentance. If thousands of people graduate and they're not in a position to pay back that loan because they earn too little, that's money and resources WASTED! Or do you think that sounds like a better deal for the country? :rolleyes: And if they DO earn enough, on top of all the other taxes and bills they have to pay, they have to pay that huge amount back over the majority of their lifetimes. Sounds like a morgage to me

    In conclusion, stop getting your "facts" from Labour, The Sun and ConDem spin doctors. They talk out their arses. The reform is garbage............then again the fee rise won't affect me as I'm already in the system so I really shouldn't care either way
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    (Original post by hodgepodge0070)
    Been there, worked hard for my education, having to pay £20,000 less for it, life goes on
    Corrected. Why blindly hop on the bandwagon and talk like modern graduates want FREE uni education? Nobody but the stupidest are saying that
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    So SO fed up of it all. I don't like the idea of the large amount of debt, but I don't disagree with it totally. I can see why it's being done. But al these people talking about 9K per year, you're forgetting that universities can charge up to 6K but then have to apply and justify if they want to charge any higher. Not every uni for every course is just going to start charging 9K as soon as 2012 comes around.
    I totally disagree with the argument that university education is a right. It is not. It never has been and hopefully never will be. If it is a right, then 100% of people should have a degree. That's utter bull****. If 100% or even 50% like labour wanted have a degree then a degree is worth **** all. No, access shouldn't be based on family wealth, so really I think they should cut places [and I mean huge HUGE cuts] but I'm sure that wouldn't go down well either. University should be for the academic elite. It should mean something special. But at the end of the day, yes we'll have huge debts, but we're getting loans. Everyone will have access to the loans, therefore everyone can fund their university career. None of this bull**** about rich students not knowing how hard it is because they get family handouts. Yes, some will...but some of the richest people I've known have been working since the age of 16 because their families beleive in teaching them hard work and providing for themselves. My family isn't poor, but I certainly don't get 'maintenance' money from them. I have my loan and that's it.
    If more people have degrees, the less we'll earn in our jobs from them. Therefore it'll be harder to pay off our loans. It's in our interests to keep the number of students down, so that our degrees are worth more. Then it won't be a problem that we've got high levels of debt.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    It wasn't a violent demo for the most part.



    No I don't think the first two protests were reason to believe there would be violence. If the police thought there would be violence, then they could have simpley refused to agree to the protest.

    I am not exaggerating figures. Why do you think most unis will charge less than £9000. On what grounds do you believe that? I don't. I think most unis WILL charge £9000. So on that basis, £9000x3 years = £27,000. Plus maintance loan for three years (around £10,000) so you get a total of £37,000. Plus Interest that will be added to the debt you are easily at £40,000. Then you have to consider many people do 4, 5 or 6 year courses which will mean they will owe an awful lot more. I think £50,000 average is around right.



    Well why did they agree to the protest route then? If they thought there would be trouble based on the previous ones, why agree to this one?
    The students admitted they ignored the prearranged route and attempted to go elsewhere outside of that. The Police have the right to be pre-emptive (as mentioned by another poster) they can and do act before a crime is committed.

    By all means protest but the carnage that was seen yesterday has turned a lot of people aginst you.

    If as the students keep saying it was a hardcore of anarchist supporters that caused all the chaos why has there been no condemnation of it by the head of the NUS?

    (If he has then I stand corrected. I haven't read the papers yet today)
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    (Original post by Threepigs)
    I see. But won't it be difficult to pay off that loan especially if you're focusing on getting a mortgage in the future too?
    Sorry if somebody answered this already as this was posted a week ago but the thread is very long :P

    It won't be difficult to pay - people only pay what they can afford. As the limit before payment is being raised to £21k (opposed to the £15k currently), this means that students will actually have more disposable income than current students ( they'll just be paying it off sooner). If a student doesn't manage to pay off all of the loan by thirty years then it will be written off. In addition, the loan is taken out of your pay packet (it's more like a tax tbh) so when looking for a mortgage the level of 'debt' you have isn't taken into account - just your current dispoable income, which as I said, will be higher under these proposals!

    Here's a useful article which I think everybody should read: http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/20...ons-education/

    Actually the one decent thing in the change is that people will have MORE disposable income than they do under the current system, not less. The new student loan system says you repay 9% of everything you earn over £21,000, rather than the current 9% of everything over £15,000.

    Look at the real impact of that:

    Earnings _Annual Repayments now _Annual Repayments under proposals
    £15,000 __ Nothing _______________Nothing
    £16,000 ___ £90 __________________Nothing
    £21,000 ___£540 _________________Nothing
    £22,000 ___£630 ________________£90
    £30,000 ___£1,350 _______________£810
    £40,000 ___£2,250 ________________£1,710
    £50,000 ___£3,150 ________________£2,610

    What scares me silly is the fact the sit-ins, the Government, and others involved in this are trying to subvert explanations of how the system actually works for political gain. That runs the risk of miseducating and scaring an entire generation unnecessarily (there are some things to be scared of, but not the ones we’re frightening people with).
    As I have seen said before, the NUS and others scaring students with the idea that they can't afford uni is reducing social mobility much more than the loans themselves!
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    (Original post by fredscarecrow)
    So SO fed up of it all. I don't like the idea of the large amount of debt, but I don't disagree with it totally. I can see why it's being done. But al these people talking about 9K per year, you're forgetting that universities can charge up to 6K but then have to apply and justify if they want to charge any higher. Not every uni for every course is just going to start charging 9K as soon as 2012 comes around.
    1 - I read yesterday that its actually 6k a year minimum. Don't know if thats true, but I haven't seen it proved wrong eiother.

    2 - So far, the only details about charging higher than 6k is that they will have to improve access to poorer kids. That could be anything, so right now we don't know how hard or easy it will be. For all we know, it could be stupidly simple, and thus every uni will be charging the higher fees. I personally think the conditions should have been announced before the vote and made clear to the public.
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    (Original post by ily_em)
    Sorry if somebody answered this already as this was posted a week ago but the thread is very long :P

    It won't be difficult to pay - people only pay what they can afford. As the limit before payment is being raised to £21k (opposed to the £15k currently), this means that students will actually have more disposable income than current students ( they'll just be paying it off sooner). If a student doesn't manage to pay off all of the loan by thirty years then it will be written off. In addition, the loan is taken out of your pay packet (it's more like a tax tbh) so when looking for a mortgage the level of 'debt' you have isn't taken into account - just your current dispoable income, which as I said, will be higher under these proposals!

    Here's a useful article which I think everybody should read: http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/20...ons-education/



    As I have seen said before, the NUS and others scaring students with the idea that they can't afford uni is reducing social mobility much more than the loans themselves!
    This post has hit it ban on the nose.

    Those who will enter Univesity under the incoming system will payback less of a larger loan than those who are operating under the current system.

    If anyone should be out there protesting it should be current students and recent graduates.

    The lack of understanding amongst the protesters with regards this new system is really quite pathetic.
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    I'm fed up with the widespread ignorance of many people who protest against the changes. I would've thought that knowing the details of the changes would be essential - apparently I'm wrong.

    I mean, who wants the level at which you have to pay back the debt increased to 21k?

    Who wants to be able to not have to pay if they can't afford to?

    Who wants any remaining debt written off after 30 years?

    Who wants a system whereby those who get more out of their degree pay more back?

    Who wants a system that will better ensure universities stay well funded for future generations of students?

    But, but, but...NASTY TORY RICH PEOPLE, THEY HATE US, THE MAN FROM THE SOCIALIST WORKER SAID SO!




    Edit:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    1 - I read yesterday that its actually 6k a year minimum. Don't know if thats true, but I haven't seen it proved wrong eiother.
    6k max - to increase it to a limit of 9k an application has to be made to an independant body showing how that extra 3k will be spent improving the university.
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    Who wants a system that will better ensure universities stay well funded for future generations of students?
    And will you explain to me how the plans will do that?
    All they are doing is replacing government money with student money (that will initially come from the government via loans anyway).
    No money saved, and no money gained by the unis.
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    Yes, especially when I read in Norwegian media how some tried to destroy the Norwegian Christmas tree in Trafalgar Square. :mad: Why on earth would someone attack a Christmas tree? It's a peace tree which Norway has sent to the UK every Christmas since 1947. As a sign of gratitude of how much Britain helped Norway during World War 2.

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    To be honest, I was never in favour of the protests,but I do feel sorry that we were lied to and manipulated by the Labour government, concerning the numbers who should be allowed to access higher education. The senior tories I also blame for not having the balls to speak up. I only saw isolated tory mps,who made the point Iam about to make .

    We don't need huge numbers of people going to university,it's pointless, more resources should be put into technical colleges to fill skill shortages. and finding ways to revive our manfacturing base, .We need to go back to a time when limited numbers went to uni and those that did get full grants, not loans and their tuition fees paid by the taxpayer.No one has a right to a higher education and if they do get one their skills should directly benefit this country and more importantly the taxpayer who is funding it. It should be done on the basis of the academically elite, and we should encourage the setting up of more grammar schools and technical schools similar to what they have in germany. So there are more career paths and choices that do not just involve going to uni.

    On the protests, I saw pictures of vermin urinating on churchill monument and prince charles and camilia were involved ,when scum threw paint at their car and apparently camilia was frightened. It wouldn't have lost any sleep if their protection had shot all of them. But anyway, the police ought to have stronger powers,I want to see cracked skulls ,dog bites and hospital admissions for tear gas inhalation and broken bones from the use of water cannon. Time to take the gloves off and clean up the streets.
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    (Original post by Luceria)
    Yes, especially when I read in Norwegian media how some tried to destroy the Norwegian Christmas tree in Trafalgar Square. :mad: Why on earth would someone attack a Christmas tree? It's a peace tree which Norway has sent to the UK every Christmas since 1947. As a sign of gratitude of how much Britain helped Norway during World War 2.

    That is disgraceful and some of us appreciate gestures like this. :mad:
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    anyone that can be named and shamed from pictures of the violent rioting should be excluded from university. they dont deserve to go with 'protesting' like that

    no one can disagree with that
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    And will you explain to me how the plans will do that?
    All they are doing is replacing government money with student money (that will initially come from the government via loans anyway).
    No money saved, and no money gained by the unis.
    Actually this means that graduates who go on to make a large amount of money (who also find the debt extremely easy to manage) will now be paying more than they would before, whilst those who don't make so much still will make a contribution but it would be equal to/less then before.

    Reagrdless the universites still get funded, this just provides a more managable debt system for students whilst enabling universities to continue to expand as well as a greater amount of money getting paid back into the system.

    If you want a more detailed version the Brown report covers it nicely why this is better than a graduate tax (which would result in a 30 year funding gap).
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    (Original post by Threepigs)
    What if a student with great potential comes from a family which rely solely on government handouts? + aren't there maintenance fees on top of that sum?
    im sure you get enough help with handouts such as ema, grants and so on
 
 
 
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