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Looks vs height vs build vs confidence in a club (for a guy) Watch

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    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    What is the problem is that almost all women won't settle for a man who is less than average height, regardless of what other qualities he may possess but more importantly, the qualities the women themselves possess, such as their own short stature etc.
    This is sadly true. I probably has something to do with the fact that most women liked being looked after and prefer being dominated by men (a bit of a generalisation there)

    But then that's like saying it's shallow for an ugly person to like a good looking person, because they're not good-looking themselves!!

    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    As well as the majority of women only ever sleeping with the minority of men. Read my earlier post for a better understanding of this. Like mirin? says, if you argue for a case that men are just as shallow as women, you will lose unless you are able to provide statistical data to show this.
    sorry, I can't be bothered to look at your previous posts, but where are the stats to prove this? I go clubbing quite a lot, and I've always noticed that it's always the same girls who get loads of attention from lots of different guys. why is that then?

    EDIT: Also, I've always noticed how guys sit around rating women out of 10 or whatever. I've never heard any girls do that! Isn't that a bit shallow of them?

    Oh, and I recently got rejected because his friends thought I wasn't hot enough. Wasn't that a bit shallow?
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Lots of people can similarly say they 'don't find certain characteristics attractive'. But then many people are then deemed shallow for it. Do you think a man saying that he simply cannot find a woman who is larger than a size 6 attractive? What about a man who says he cannot find a woman who is not in a position of leadership attractive? What about a man who specifies that he simply cannot see himself forming a relationship with a woman who earns less than £150,000 per annum.

    In which (if any) of the above situations do you think the man is being 'shallow', in your opinion?
    I don't think there is anything wrong with having personal preferences, as long as they aren't completely ridiculous. Now you could argue on and on about about what counts as ridiculous, but to me the last one seems very shallow!!
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    I don't think there is anything wrong with having personal preferences, as long as they aren't completely ridiculous. Now you could argue on and on about about what counts as ridiculous, but to me the last one seems very shallow!!
    So a woman rejecting a man on the basis of him being shorter than 5 ft 11 is less shallow than a man rejecting a woman on the basis of her not earning in excess of £150,000 per annum?

    What's your logic behind this? Because I'm pretty sure it's easier to change your salary than your height, right?
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    vs being a cretin.
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    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    These men are just rating the attractiveness of women, women do it for men all the time. As we both agree that women are more shallow than men you make a moot point.
    How is this not shallow?

    No they don't. At least the kind of women I hang around with don't. I don't sit around with my friends rating all the guys on our course and deciding who we would rather shag, but a lot of my male friends do.


    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    Oh yeah, "Young women have more sexual partners than men":
    Sorry, but how does this make these women more shallow than you? Also, not all women go around sleeping with men outside relationships, so I'm sorry but you cannot say all women are shallow because some women only sleep with some of the men.

    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    Every single guy I talk to agrees with me when I say that the majority of women only sleep with a minority of men. In fact, this isn't my opinion, I first heard this from many other men.
    Of course they would. They are guys!

    and what do you have to say about the point I made earlier about how women are always made to feel they have to put a lot of effort into their appearance?

    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    About the last point you make, I'm sorry to hear this but you must understand that women do this to men too.
    I do understand this, which is why I don't think women are any more shallow than men. I think most people tend to be shallow to some extent, regardless of their gender.

    (sorry if some of it doesn't make sense. English is my 2nd language.)
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    (Original post by effofex)
    So a woman rejecting a man on the basis of him being shorter than 5 ft 11 is less shallow than a man rejecting a woman on the basis of her not earning in excess of £150,000 per annum?
    Yes, it is. And I think you know it is, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Come up with a sensible argument if you want to actually make a point.
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    (Original post by Bakerzoid)
    I think they were exaggerations to demonstrate a point. Women do have ridiculous demands actually. If we analyse the bell curve distribution of male height, we can see that eliminating men below the average height eliminates 50% of men. You can't tell me that every single man would rule out 50% of women.
    I'm not denying this, but so do men! Don't tell me that girls are not made to feel bad about having small boobs or not having a good figure et etc
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    What's so bad about shallowness? You can't force attraction, nor would you want to. We might as well go for things that make us happy and sexually aroused, even though it appears like shallow behavior to ourselves or others.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    Yes, it is. And I think you know it is, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Come up with a sensible argument if you want to actually make a point.
    How? This isn't arguing for ths sake of arguing. The point I'm trying to make is that it is usually possible to change your earning power. People's salaries can change quite alot over the course of their working lives. A persons height tends to stay the same from the age of 20 till the age of 50.

    So you're saying that it is less shallow to discriminate on the basis of a trait that a person cannot change (height) than it is to discriminate on the basis of a trait they CAN change (earning power). Surely it should be the other way round, no? And if not, why?
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    (Original post by Bazlehman)
    Women are always saying to me " Oh your so tall!"(6'2) It's a great compliment for something that took so many years to achieve.
    congratulations on your height, you earned it.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    How? This isn't arguing for ths sake of arguing. The point I'm trying to make is that it is usually possible to change your earning power. People's salaries can change quite alot over the course of their working lives. A persons height tends to stay the same from the age of 20 till the age of 50.

    So you're saying that it is less shallow to discriminate on the basis of a trait that a person cannot change (height) than it is to discriminate on the basis of a trait they CAN change (earning power). Surely it should be the other way round, no? And if not, why?
    No, I'm not saying that at all. I was talking about this specific example. Marrying someone just for their money is, in my opinion, wrong. Where as if you don't find someone attractive because of their short height, then there is nothing you can do about it. Surely everybody must have personal preferences. Otherwise wouldn't everyone fancy everyone else??
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    No, I'm not saying that at all. I was talking about this specific example. Marrying someone just for their money is, in my opinion, wrong. Where as if you don't find someone attractive because of their short height, then there is nothing you can do about it. Surely everybody must have personal preferences. Otherwise wouldn't everyone fancy everyone else??
    Of course everyone has 'preferences'. But earning power may indicate alot about the 'status' of the woman, which the man may find very important. The fact that the woman has amassed such a salary may indicate her skilfulness, conscientiousness and financial security - which the man may find to be prized traits in a potential partner.

    It is any man or woman's prerogative to discriminate on whichever criteria they like, but the more stringent their criteria are, the lower the proportion of the population will be eligible. Also, what if a male was to say, con you by wearing certain shoes which you may not be able to see clearly in a dark environment and pass himself off as say 6 ft 0 when in actual fact he was 5 ft 7? I suppose it would be like a woman trying to convince a man she earned over £150,000 per annum, without showing him her contract/payslips.
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    (Original post by Bakerzoid;28766108[B)
    ]Yeah but they wouldn't date a guy below 5'10'' tall would they?[/B] That's probably where you got your opinion that you share with me from. There is a quiet coldness about it among women.
    When women say they prefer taller men, I always assumed it was relative to their own height.

    (Original post by Bakerzoid;28766108[B)
    ] Whereas when the men are rating the women, they would still want to go out with an average woman.
    If you're talking about looks here then women too date average looking guys!

    (Original post by Bakerzoid;28766108[B)
    ]I never said all women are shallow, I said that more women are shallow than men. Also, I was arguing the point that more women have more sexual partners than most men, hence men are less shallow than women. Just because shallow behaviour is displayed in both genders doesn't mean that both the genders are equally shallow. If one gender repeats this behaviour more than the other, they are more shallow than that gender.
    Doesn't that imply men are MORE choosy about who they sleep with? specially because men tend to have higher sex drive than women?

    (Original post by Bakerzoid;28766108[B)
    ]To the bold. This is just a by-product of our capatilist society. Almost all of these magazines, if not all of them, are written and edited by women. Why would women want to perpetuate insecurity among other women? The media and associated corporations first 'create' a need, by telling women they have to wear make-up, spend hours on their appearance (I have a sister and she was only ever introduced to this culture through crappy, misandrist magazines) to attract men and ultimately, sex, (with a 6'2", handsome boy) so women keep buying these magazines. Speaking of my sister, she comes from a stable home and has a boyfriend who is scarily similar to me.
    Is it? Or is it because men want women to look their best at all times? Why are girls who don't put enough effort into their appearance frowned upon?

    I refuse to give into this crap. I only wear lots of make up on special occasions, simply because its BAD for your skin! It is also the main reason I don't have a bf. I was told that I'm probably very lazy which is why I don't make enough effort to look good, when the truth is that i just don't want to harm my own body!
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Of course everyone has 'preferences'. But earning power may indicate alot about the 'status' of the woman, which the man may find very important. The fact that the woman has amassed such a salary may indicate her skilfulness, conscientiousness and financial security - which the man may find to be prized traits in a potential partner.
    just because someone earns a lot of money, it does not mean they are more skilled or intelligent!

    and yes, to me, finding someone attractive just because they are financially secure is quite shallow!

    (Original post by effofex)
    It is any man or woman's prerogative to discriminate on whichever criteria they like, but the more stringent their criteria are, the lower the proportion of the population will be eligible. Also, what if a male was to say, con you by wearing certain shoes which you may not be able to see clearly in a dark environment and pass himself off as say 6 ft 0 when in actual fact he was 5 ft 7? I suppose it would be like a woman trying to convince a man she earned over £150,000 per annum, without showing him her contract/payslips.
    I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand your point here.
 
 
 
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