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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    (Original post by Get Real)
    Well it does, I was simply speaking from the perception of most people. But I would like to know how much I was paying back, because frankly I could go an work at a local factory and earn £30,000 a year straight away. Not having to pay any Tuiton Fees back, and whilst others are getting £40,000 in debt I've earn £90,000 in the same time.
    If people feel hard done by on a £21k wage, then I honestly can't see how they can classify themselves as poor students?

    I have no idea how much you'd be paying back, it depends which university and which course you apply for - and the pricing hasn't been announced yet anyway. They will tell you how much it is before you go though, so you will know how much you'd be paying back.

    If short term money, or money full stop, is that important then you might as well just get the local factory job then.
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    (Original post by ily_em)
    Doesn't that defeat the object? If you're earning more, you should be able to pay more anyway! eg earning a very high salary of £40k you'll be paying back £1,710 a year, a hardly huge sum out of that salary!




    Late payment fees? It comes out of your income, like a tax...




    Why would it matter whether you're going to get a job after uni or not? Taking the loans is not a gamble as you know that you only pay what you can afford; get a low paying job or none at all after a crap degree and no loan will be paid back!




    My household income is around £11k and I'm not worried about the 'debt' - why should I be?



    As I said above, it's not a 'gamble' taking out the loan. If you want to do a history degree but are worried about getting a job afterwards, why would it matter that you have a student loan? If you're unlucky and don't get a job, then you don't pay the loan. Or if you get a low paying job you won't pay much back either. It's only if you do well that you have to pay much of the loan back at all.



    If (as per your example) somebody was earning just above £21k then they would NEVER have to pay back all of the debt. Let's say somebody doesn't benefit much from uni and is earning £22k. They'd pay back £90 a year, or £2,700 before the loan is wiped off after 30 years. They're actually better off than current students as the limit has been raised from £15k to £21k.



    They are only deterred because the media portrays it as a horrible debt when it really isn't



    Here you go: http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/20...ons-education/

    Earnings _Annual Repayments now _Annual Repayments under proposals
    £15,000 __ Nothing _______________Nothing
    £16,000 ___ £90 __________________Nothing
    £21,000 ___£540 _________________Nothing
    £22,000 ___£630 ________________£90
    £30,000 ___£1,350 _______________£810
    £40,000 ___£2,250 ________________£1,710
    £50,000 ___£3,150 ________________£2,610
    Brilliant Thanks alot!
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    no BUT LABOR I MEAN TORIZ HATE PAW PPL YEH
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Most do
    Erm no, working class doesnt mean benefits, I come from a working class family, I have a menial job, but claim no benefits, bareley any of the working class, who are in fulll time work, actually claim a benefit
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    (Original post by aprilterri)
    And how many people get A level tutors? Most people don't have A level tutors because they can't afford them so I don't understand your logic. It has worked in the past ask Clegg and Cameron. No I don't believe that university should be free but £9000 is far too much in my opinion. Some universities don't even give you 18 hours contact time a week.
    Those who can't afford tutors get EMA which SHOULD be used to get a tutor as well as books or whatever. I don't get EMA as my parents earn just above the limit and with me and my sister going uni this year, financial help from them will be limited. I have to say though that EMA should not get scraped. I'm going to have to take out a loan to fund my studies so i'm in the same boat. If the fees were £9k a year this year, i'd still go out and get the loan or take a gap year and get a job in waitrose or something for a year to get at least £20k saved up to ease my financial situation.

    In a recession, cuts are necessary. This was the easiest cut to make. It may not be fair or popular but we can't keep spending the amount of money we do currently or we'll just get deeper and deeper into debt. This country can't afford that.
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      (Original post by Tashalls)
      That loads of time , ill be 52
      But at least it's a safety-net, i.e. you will not be bankrupt. You will just be in "debt".
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      (Original post by im so academic)
      But at least it's a safety-net, i.e. you will not be bankrupt. You will just be in "debt".
      I don't understand your point, just because it's not as bad as being bankrupt doesn't mean it's not bad =/.
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      (Original post by Tashalls)
      I don't understand your point, just because it's not as bad as being bankrupt doesn't mean it's not bad =/.
      I think she means it's not possible to get bankrupt on this debt, (or miss any payments, or be chased by bailiffs). You only pay what you can afford and most people won't have to pay it all back.
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      (Original post by ily_em)
      I think she means it's not possible to get bankrupt on this debt, (or miss any payments, or be chased by bailiffs). You only pay what you can afford and most people won't have to pay it all back.
      And I made it clear I was aware of that, which is why I didn't understand the point of her saying that... I didn't need it explaining lol
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      (Original post by ily_em)
      They are only deterred because the media portrays it as a horrible debt when it really isn't

      Surely the same "it doesn't deter" argument could be applied to any public service?

      For example, why not introduce a £6000 fee for calling the fire brigade when your house is on fire? If a low-interest government loan would be available, it wouldn't really deter people from calling the fire brigade because the benefit from not having your house burn down is higher than £6000.
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      (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
      There is smart as in 'smart enough for a competent course like medicine'
      Then there is the 'average/ not so sterotypically smart for a course like interior design'
      [not saying that very smart ppl dont do interior design]
      but I believe poorer ppl/ppl from disadvantaged backgrounds will be 'put off/deterred' by the rise in student fees

      and a person can be an academic genius and still want to sing in his/her local X factor
      [its not impossible]
      Well if you aren't very smart then you are not as deserving as the smart people and hence no, you do not deserve to go to university. Whilst I am not saying anyone with less than AAA shouldn't be allowed into university, the current situation is such that people with CCCs or lower are getting into "university" doing doss courses and end up on the dole instead of using that time in a more vocational learning environment that would suit them better.
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      Because people suck. Was there a riot whenever it was that mortgages started becoming normal? There's NOTHING "normal" about having a "huge debt hanging over your head" for your whole life, and potentially your children's life. There's nothing normal about going through such a complex process just to get the most basic things of all - a house.

      Yet this is the financial culture we're in - it's the culture that caused big growths and big dips; it's extended from property like houses, to furniture and mobile phones.

      Why not education?

      The existent higher education platform is not something the govt wants to invest in - not just because there isn't enough actual money (which could be argued there is), but because it's a crap investment as chunks of people who graduate end up in jobs that don't pay off. So instead, people have to pay for their education more - and if they are confident it's a good investment for them, then they will make it.
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      (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
      Yes and the taxpayer is majestically paying for the repercussions of this depression - courtesy of the ridiculous bankers who got us in this mess in the first place.
      Once again the taxpayer is paying for something it "benefits from" - how ironic
      Yes, Gordon Brown selling off gold reserves at bottom price, not storing anything for a rainy day, telling banks to lend more so he could beam at the cameras whilst telling them how many more people had mortgages thanks to him and proclaiming he had ended boom and bust had nothing to do with the UK's recession.
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      (Original post by chaz1992)
      Those who can't afford tutors get EMA which SHOULD be used to get a tutor as well as books or whatever. I don't get EMA as my parents earn just above the limit and with me and my sister going uni this year, financial help from them will be limited. I have to say though that EMA should not get scraped. I'm going to have to take out a loan to fund my studies so i'm in the same boat. If the fees were £9k a year this year, i'd still go out and get the loan or take a gap year and get a job in waitrose or something for a year to get at least £20k saved up to ease my financial situation.

      In a recession, cuts are necessary. This was the easiest cut to make. It may not be fair or popular but we can't keep spending the amount of money we do currently or we'll just get deeper and deeper into debt. This country can't afford that.
      I understand what you're saying however I personally used all of my EMA for lunch, toiletries, books etc.. There was nothing else left for tuition. I also worked and that money went to save for uni and for leisure (which wasn't very often). I know people who have to use public transport to get to college and that used their EMA for that and worked on weekends for lunch and other money. Also bear in mind that some people get £30 some get £20 and some £10 do its not really that much. I'm on a gap year now wasn't planned but I would have had literally no money had I gone to university. There are no jobs around and I doubt that you'd make £20k in a gap year.
      Yes I get that cuts are necessary but the raise in fees could have been less. University is expensive as it is.
      Personally if fees were £9k per year I'd either not go at all unless my course was a vocational course guaranteeing an over £25k salary or I'd do a part time course at the OU. Though I know that a lot of poor people would see the high fees and give up completely. Like I said in a previous post if you've grown up in poverty and have seen the affect of debt the very thought of it may scare you.
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      Well, I'll be £60,000 in debt after my Med degree, just as I'm (hopefully!) starting a young family, and getting my first mortgage. Excuse me if I'm not exactly jumping for job at that prospect.

      And the entire 'selfish of Graduates to expect taxpayer to pick up the cost' argument is ridiculous. By that logic, cancer patients are selfish for expecting the taxpayer to pick up their costs, drivers are selfish for not paying for the roads out of massive loans, and the 5 year old starting Primary School should be expected to bear the cost.
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      (Original post by HJV)
      Surely the same "it doesn't deter" argument could be applied to any public service?

      For example, why not introduce a £6000 fee for calling the fire brigade when your house is on fire? If a low-interest government loan would be available, it wouldn't really deter people from calling the fire brigade because the benefit from not having your house burn down is higher than £6000.
      Interesting :holmes:
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      I don't know.

      In my opinion it would actually encourage poorer students from going to Unis. This was not expected prior to the increase of the tuition fees from £1000 to £3290, yet it happened with record numbers of students going to Unis.

      The only thing that will deter people would be the decrease in the quality of education which is bound to happen as a result of these drastic cuts.

      Its a bad time for UK education.
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      (Original post by JoeLatics)
      Well, I'll be £60,000 in debt after my Med degree, just as I'm (hopefully!) starting a young family, and getting my first mortgage. Excuse me if I'm not exactly jumping for job at that prospect.

      And the entire 'selfish of Graduates to expect taxpayer to pick up the cost' argument is ridiculous. By that logic, cancer patients are selfish for expecting the taxpayer to pick up their costs, drivers are selfish for not paying for the roads out of massive loans, and the 5 year old starting Primary School should be expected to bear the cost.
      You'll only pay back the entire £60,000 if you earn an average of £43,222 each year after leaving uni for 30 years. More than enough to have a family! At the point when you'll be starting a family, looking for a house etc, you'll actually have more disposable income than current students (as limit raised to £21k), so you'll be in a better situation than the current system.

      Not going to uni isn't quite the same as dying of cancer btw :p:
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      (Original post by Athuwssr)
      Well your a class A douche bag.

      £9k a year for three years is an outrage.

      We only have to pay it after we earn £21k so we are better off apparently. Thats only £6k a year more but instead we will have debts of £40k instead of £20k.

      So anyone who goes to uni in 2012 is ****ed.

      Your a **** for listening to what the "coalition" are saying and being absorbed into thinking others will be better off under the new scheme when its total BS
      :facepalm:

      And you called him a douche bag. Man that's tragic.
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      (Original post by The_question)
      I don't know.

      In my opinion it would actually encourage poorer students from going to Unis. This was not expected prior to the increase of the tuition fees from £1000 to £3290, yet it happened with record numbers of students going to Unis.

      The only thing that will deter people would be the decrease in the quality of education which is bound to happen as a result of these drastic cuts.

      Its a bad time for UK education.

      High schools and sixth-forms yes. Universities no.

      • The new plans will enable universities to spend more resources on teaching - not less. The Government will continue to pay 40% of the cost of higher education
        The old system of university finance is unsustainable, which is why the Browne review was established in the first place. The new plans will give universities a sustainable funding stream and higher levels of income in some circumstances.


      The problem is the VAST majority of people now get enough GCSE'S and A-levels and so competition for uni places is ridiculous when there are a lot of pointless degrees out there. Despite what Andy Burnham may have you believe, we need a two-tier education system so the best students get into university, not the ones who write a better personal statement :/ If we make education pre-uni harder it may decrease results but it will highlight the truly stand-out students and make it easier to see who should go to uni and will be of benefit to them and the country.
     
     
     
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