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    (Original post by ch0llima)
    I am well aware of this, and it was actually a test to see if you actually read and quoted the correct bit for once.

    Not only that, you provided a sensible answer. You passed.
    When you get something wrong, you can admit it you know- the sky isn't going to collapse.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    You are regressive! :gah:
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    :facepalm2:

    You do not pay until you earn 21k and loans cover the cost. You do not pay upfront. Hardly a system just for the rich
    My understanding of students wishing to go into university are those who aspire to earn over "21k" quite early in their carrers.
    Loans!
    Shame we have to pay loans back isn't it?!
    21 thousands pounds is a tiny amonut, to start paying back at this rate is insane! at that kind of money how is one suppose to have a house, carrer, family ect!
    It's going to be a bigger money concern than their mortgage!
    There's no need for it, and it will stunt the growth of this country dramatically.
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    My understanding of students wishing to go into university are those who aspire to earn over "21k" quite early in their carrers.
    Loans!
    Shame we have to pay loans back isn't it?!
    21 thousands pounds is a tiny amonut, to start paying back at this rate is insane! at that kind of money how is one suppose to have a house, carrer, family ect!
    It's going to be a bigger money concern than their mortgage!
    There's no need for it, and it will stunt the growth of this country dramatically.
    Go look into the system, then I cba to explain away your ignorance
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    (Original post by ch0llima)
    *Snip*
    Easily the best post so far in this thread. I commend you, sir
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    My understanding of students wishing to go into university are those who aspire to earn over "21k" quite early in their carrers.
    Loans!
    Shame we have to pay loans back isn't it?!
    21 thousands pounds is a tiny amonut, to start paying back at this rate is insane! at that kind of money how is one suppose to have a house, carrer, family ect!
    It's going to be a bigger money concern than their mortgage!
    There's no need for it, and it will stunt the growth of this country dramatically.
    Don't be so hysterical. At £21k, you'll be paying back about £800 a year, hardly going to ruin your life on that kind of money. With the current system, you're paying it back at a much lower rate, you don't see us complaining about that.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Go look into the system, then I cba to explain away your ignorance
    Very good discussion from you.
    Your view is obviously right and very clear.

    Isn't sarcasm brilliant..
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    (Original post by pinkpont)
    Don't be so hysterical. At £21k, you'll be paying back about £800, hardly going to ruin your life on that kind of money. With the current system, you're paying it back at a much lower rate, you don't see us complaining about that.
    Pardon me for caring,
    But people seem to forget that there are thousands of young people who are in danger of not risking their life away at university.
    People forget that this effects real people, and real futures.

    Surely the protests show how many people are going to be in situations of a standard of life much lower than there potential.
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    So unreasonable.
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    Pardon me for caring,
    But people seem to forget that there are thousands of young people who are in danger of not risking their life away at university.
    People forget that this effects real people, and real futures.

    Surely the protests show how many people are going to be in situations of a standard of life much lower than there potential.
    As I said before, if people are too stupid to realise the fee rises will have a negligible effect in the long term, they shouldn't be going to university at all. £21k is a large sum of money to be earning, it's a very fair deal by all accounts. If you want to blame someone, blame Labour for being the architects of an unsustainable system. Everyone's having to pay the price for their ineptitude, students should be no different.
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    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    The 9k will be paid on an interest-free loan that you don't have to pay back until you're earning £21k. Even then it's only about £10 a month. That's as cheap as the cheapest phone contracts out there. If you have to weigh up if you'd rather have 300 minutes and 200 texts or a degree then you probably shouldn't be doing a degree anyway.
    I was actually mentioning this as the most important thing. Whilst this is in place, university is still available for all, regardless of background. Cuts to the LOANS are the biggest threat to fair education in the UK.

    That's why I don't oppose what went through in Parliament today that much. But I do think this is just part of the slide towards a system far worse and far more brutal, so that's why I was protesting today.

    The fact is when you apply to University you don't see it as 30k of debt. You apply for Student Finance and they pay it all for you. The actual amount of fees is totally arbitrary the real outrage is about an increase but an increase in an arbitrary number isn't an increase at all. This isn't like credit card debt it's an investment, if you never get a decent job after Uni then that's not a problem as you don't have to pay it back. If you get a decent job then you're in a position to be able to pay it back.
    Don't agree, I saw it as 20k+ of debt when I applied. It's a disincentive (obviously!!!), but I always wanted to go to uni.

    University is the first time when young people take on their own financial responsibility separate from their parents. I advocate a flat-rate maintenance loan and grant which covers living costs adequately without looking at the parent's income. I know quite a few upper-middle-class kids at Uni and, admittedly, some of them do get money from home but none of them are having their tuition fees paid for.
    Nah, disagree in a big way with this. A flat-rate would both be too much for the kids lucky enough to have the possibility of help from home (like me!), or not enough to subsist off as someone coming from a background with nothing.

    My personal situation is that I work, so I don't actually need help from my family. But I know it's there if I need it, which is very re-assuring. I do think kids from poor backgrounds should be expected to work at least in holidays to contribute, but the loan has to be enough that they could subsist off it if they could not find work. That does not have to be the case for richer kids.

    It's a nice ideal, to say that rich students should be given the same as poor students to begin their financial autonomy, but we all know they'd put it in a long-term high-yield account and live off hand-outs from mummy. I know plenty that do this already. Give them more, and they'll just take more interest at the expense of the tax-payer.

    The system is still biased against poor students-they're just going to have to pay it back one day anyway. The loans exist to try to help them break the poverty cycle.

    You may like to think university is the start of financial independance. It isn't. It isn't anywhere in the world-university is a time where you have very little capacity to generate personal finance, but need to make a great deal of expenditure. All over the world, students are helped out by their families. In America families spend years saving for their kids' university savings. At the moment in Britain we don't need to to the same degree, as degrees are cheaper, but as this socialism disappears from the system, we're going to become less and less financially independent.

    It may be, or, it may not be. Evidence we have from the initial introduction of fees suggests in has no affect at all.
    Whilst that's interesting, the numbers of working class students has been on the rise for ages, for a whole host of reasons. I think this general trend might be masking the reality.

    I'm not trying to blindly ignore your evidence, but it seems absolutely obvious that fees are a disincentive, and the higher they are the more of a disincentive they will be. Debt is scary when you're 18. Whilst the loan is in place the immediacy of the debt is less obvious and the debt is less dangerous, so people will take less note of it.


    I always advocate a University system where there's no need to pay up-front.
    As mentioned, this is the most important thing, and when the government starts to hit the student loan system, that is when I think all this violence and anger will ACTUALLY be justified.
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    (Original post by Monkeyuncle)
    Hope your happy Thatcher, Now the Tories may have destroyed MY Future, Yes I may be in year 9 but this is something that may continue into when I am going to university IF I manage to go because of the money. This is why when I am old enough to vote I will NEVER vote tory for what has just happened and for many reasons you would know yourself. Tories have destroyed many bright futures for students, And will continue to do if you are ever voted again. I hope the tories happy and I hope that the tories will never be voted again..
    Hang on, have you even read the policies?
    It's not like you're paying upfront or anything! www.factsonfees.com

    How can you be happy for people on £10,000 or £12,000 a year salaries - people with FAMILIES and RENT to pay, to have to pay for a degree which will greatly increase your future earnings? (And if you don't have high earnings when you graduate, you either repay nothing or very little so then you haven't paid for your degree anyway).

    What money argument could there possibly be? If you graduate and get a high-paid job, you have to pay back money for your university? How is that POSSIBLY unfair?!
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    (Original post by 01010000 01001010)
    Indeed. I think the worst part is that most of the protesters are simply not university students and never will be, but the media will instantly label the rioters as students, thus making our situation worse.
    LOL a success are you two joking?!

    *3 Junior ministers resigned, 21 Lib Dems/4 tories voted against & 2 tories abstained.
    *Apparent apathetic youngster taking to the streets (although not all students I admit) and advocating their democratic rights for the first time in a long time!
    *It clearly demonstrates the fragility and inevitable reduced longevity of this coalition government.
    *It has highlighted in a practical, and none ideological sense, that politician's "promises" have weight and consequences to them and not just mere words and Political point scoring opportunities.
    *It has demonstrated the the rest of Europe, and the world, that the British aren't these tight upper lipped, lethargic society of sheep in the industrial world. Rather than passionate, practical go getters who believe in holding their elected representatives, although to extreme measures, to account no matter what the consequences.

    More protests FTW!
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    No, the government failed us.
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    I'm un-clear on why a large majority of students in "the student room" seem to be relishing the prospect of paying much larger amounts of money towards their education than needed.
    Who are you people? and what is your reasoning for being so supportive, of surley, your own misfortune?!
    Perhaps they feel that, if they graduate and get a high-paid job, they should contribute to the cost of the higher education which they received, and not a bricklayer who didn't go to university.

    Perhaps they're not so selfish as to believe that taxpayers, who are on an average salary of £21,000, should have to pay for their degree if they go on to become lawyers, bankers, headteachers, accountants, etc.

    Perhaps they have a sense of pride in repaying the Government for their optional degrees so that the Government can spend money on drugs for cancer patients, and roads, and schools so that everybody can have good education up to the age of 18, and then have the opportunity to go to university.

    Perhaps they believe in fairness.

    Perhaps they just want to laugh at Nick Clegg.

    Who knows?
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    (Original post by pinkpont)
    As I said before, if people are too stupid to realise the fee rises will have a negligible effect in the long term, they shouldn't be going to university at all. £21k is a large sum of money to be earning, it's a very fair deal by all accounts. If you want to blame someone, blame Labour for being the architects of an unsustainable system. Everyone's having to pay the price for their ineptitude, students should be no different.
    Fair point.
    I completely understand your opinion.
    But the rises are very substantial.
    I still find it unfair that students should be the ones to pay such a large price.
    The government is so corupt and this is not the right place to make the changes!
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    Viva la revaloution. We should go communist.I would love to see the governments. Attempt at own brand hollister hoodies.Rofl

    And as a special treat


    In soviet Russia.....Clegg get hung.

    seriosly What the hell does clegg even do.I imagine at debates he tries to talk and Cameron says "quiaaat Clegg back to your couloring book" Clegg"Naaw I want milky bar" Cameron"Now Clegg if you do what I do ill get you an ice cream". Clegg"And some yu gi oh cards?" Cameron"*Sigh*yes clegg,Now I've got to go kick ass and take names....cough.....in the house of commons"
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    Pardon me for caring,
    But people seem to forget that there are thousands of young people who are in danger of not risking their life away at university.
    People forget that this effects real people, and real futures.

    Surely the protests show how many people are going to be in situations of a standard of life much lower than there potential.
    A load of muppets throwing sticks at police show nothing.

    People will be affected, but in reality not a single student should be scared off uni by this, since a full interest-free loan system will still be in place.

    The reality may be different, but only because of people's ignorance.

    You may think that you now have to make a judgement about the real-world value of your degree now the price is on the rise. Is it worth 30k? Will it make itself back?

    In reality the above is a silly way to look at things-you could be a plumber on 100k, or a graduate teacher on 20k. It's not about how much you're going to make with the degree, but the kind of job and lifestyle you're looking at living, as well as your love of your subject and acedemic study for it's own sake.
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    (Original post by 4994mm)
    Fair point.
    I completely understand your opinion.
    But the rises are very substantial.
    I still find it unfair that students should be the ones to pay such a large price.
    The government is so corupt and this is not the right place to make the changes!
    But why should students be exempt? University education is a privilege, not a right - if it dissuades people from taking joke courses, then it's not a bad thing. This can only make Universities raise their game - if they're not up to scratch, then they should fall by the wayside. It can only raise the overall quality of university education
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    All this talk of how this ensures the Tories won't be in power in nonsense. Labour are a rudderless ship right now with no actual alternative (the graduate tax will just alienate any graduates at the next election), heck they didn't even know if they had a plan till 2 days ago with the Shadow Chancellor saying one thing and the party leader another, and the Lib Dems have destroyed their credibility by going back on a major part of their manifesto. All the Tories have to do for an year at least is keep repeating the "its Brown's fault we have to make these cuts", pass all the austerity measures they need to and people will not forget the disaster the last administration was. Labour are worse off than the Republicans after 2008 with no practical agenda whatsoever, unless there is a massive shift in that party the Tories could easily get another term.
 
 
 
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