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Water Cannon at Student Demos? Conservatives Say NO... Watch

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    (Original post by Aj12)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...-fees-violence

    Yeah its great when the policer show up unarmed the students attack buildings and illegally occupy them and trash them
    With the clean-up of broken glass, charred benches and abandoned placards.

    Glasses were obviously broken by the students when they needed to defend themselves and rightly so.

    Charred Benches - the benches were obviously there so clearly these weapons were not premeditatedly brought to cause violence.

    Abandoned Placards - brought to protest peacefully - if they wanted to be violent they would have brought knives, guns, tasers and so on.

    Concrete Block thrown - obviously broken up on the spur of the moment in retaliation to the polices violent tactics.

    None of the things the students used were intended for violence when they first turned up - they were ever to be used for peaceful demonstrations or were in the area when they turned up and then later turned to weapons in retaliation to the police.

    Yet the police TURNED UP with batons, horses and riot shields - they clearly were coming for a riot and premeditated the attack.

    One 21-year-old literature student, using the alias raindance77, told the Guardian: "I am a girl of five foot two, I was pushed several times in the face, dragged on the floor and laughed at by police when I told them I had asthma. I asked a policeman where I could go to the toilet; he pointed at the floor by his feet. Another shouted: 'Move, *****, or I'll squash you with my horse.' "

    I heard things like this all day. The reason I am now sickened by the police force.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    All all fairness them being girls makes very little difference. Those officers will be being provoked by other protesters for most of the day as well as being attacked. Its no real surprise that some go over the top given the situation.
    well i didn't say they were girls, although yes they are. I just saw them as fellow human beings and i believe nobody should be treated that way, but hey i'm just a looney lefty.

    You think it is acceptable for the Police to go over the top??/ and hit people who weren't doing anything wrong??? who were crying to be allowed to leave???

    Perhaps we could use this the other way. If the police went over the top can we not say it isn't a suprise that some of the protesters went over the top with their actions??/ So really its a viscous ciricle.

    The thing is the police are meant to protect people, they are not meant to go "over the top" that is what they are trained for.
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    (Original post by Pads)
    Reading this thread makes me realise how stupid some people are. Thinking that it was the police who started the violence and that policeman went round giving their friends black eyes for no reason. The person must of been right up in the police mans face to get a black eye.

    I'm a Labour supporter but I think the riots are ridiculous and the police should get really tough on them. If people want to fight then lets give the police rubber bullets and water cannons. Hey why not even get some tear gas out so we can see these people crying saying the police started it so therefore they are alowed to be violent?
    Bye Bye all credibility.

    Anyone who claims to strictly follow a party is a complete and utter moron with no individual mind.

    The police came with pre meditated weapons whereas the students improvised on the stop to create weapons in order to defend themselves. Did any student turn up with a gun, knife etc ? No. If they were intent on causing violence they could have easily brought such weapons.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Says you. Every account I have read and from watching coverage of the protest says different. Accounts from about 4 or 5 different newspapers from the guardian to the Times contradicts what your saying.
    Wow!

    Someone getting manipulated by the media.

    No wonder this country is screwed.

    Get out into the real world rather than listening to **** spouted by the media to take money from you. The papers spout so much farcical **** its sad.
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    (Original post by JMG89)
    well i didn't say they were girls, although yes they are. I just saw them as fellow human beings and i believe nobody should be treated that way, but hey i'm just a looney lefty.

    You think it is acceptable for the Police to go over the top??/ and hit people who weren't doing anything wrong??? who were crying to be allowed to leave???

    Perhaps we could use this the other way. If the police went over the top can we not say it isn't a suprise that some of the protesters went over the top with their actions??/ So really its a viscous ciricle.

    The thing is the police are meant to protect people, they are not meant to go "over the top" that is what they are trained for.
    When you have a crowd being pushed against you, some attacking you others screaming abuse at you and a few who just are in the wrong place its very difficult to tell these groups of people apart.

    So the police hit a few people on the legs and arms as they are trained to and shove people back, the protesters respond by throwing blocks of concrete and picking up metal fencing to try and hit police in the face. Thats a bit more than going over the top and shoving someone back to hard
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Do you understand the word "ignore"? Idiot.
    Wow ! you answered to me first so therefore you're the idiot.

    Anyway, cool story bro.

    I find it funny that you were on ignore and answered to me first then have the cheek to call me the idiot.
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    (Original post by No Future)
    As agreed. The march up to P Square was non violent. Violence started when people were unable to move beyond P Square and were subsequently kettled in P Square
    There is a difference. The planned route went across the north part of parliament square. The protesters went into parliament square and decided to protest there instead. So the police kettle them rather than having to deal with a great mob of people they kettle them in one place to make it managable
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Did any student turn up with a gun, knife etc ? No. If they were intent on causing violence they could have easily brought such weapons.
    This. Even those who did cause damage did not bring weapons.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    When you have a crowd being pushed against you, some attacking you others screaming abuse at you and a few who just are in the wrong place its very difficult to tell these groups of people apart.

    So the police hit a few people on the legs and arms as they are trained to and shove people back, the protesters respond by throwing blocks of concrete and picking up metal fencing to try and hit police in the face. Thats a bit more than going over the top and shoving someone back to hard
    Sorry but they didn't hit them on the legs and arms did they?? As the Alfie Meadows case shows they hit them on the head. I also have friends who i know well and who would never use violence against the police who were also hit on the head.

    Also these metal fences, yes i agree it wasn't nice to use them to try and get through police lines. But really they are flimsy fences with hollow very light tubes. They really aren't going to hurt you, especially when you are in full riot gear.

    I think you can see on most fil footage of the events, chucking these fences at the police epically failed. The police just grabbed them and dragged with away. Yes i agree it looked awful but in reality they didn't do anything. They could barely throw them because they are a bit big and hard to move.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Wow!

    Someone getting manipulated by the media.

    No wonder this country is screwed.

    Get out into the real world rather than listening to **** spouted by the media to take money from you. The papers spout so much farcical **** its sad.
    Yup. I thought the newspapers were generally accurate until I saw the total misreporting of the events of 9/12
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Wow ! you answered to me first so therefore you're the idiot.

    Anyway, cool story bro.

    I find it funny that you were on ignore and answered to me first then have the cheek to call me the idiot.
    Did I quote you on the subject of paint? No. Did I respond directly to you? No. Was my post a general comment? Yes. Are we allowed to make general comments in D&D? Yes. I hope your genius brain can figure the idiot here.
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    (Original post by Pads)
    Ok the concerts reference was not in relation to the police at all so dont misquote me there. It was in reference to a guy saying he was forced to go and push against the police and sadly that hurt him(aww poor guy) because for some reason he couldnt manage to fight his way out through the back of the crowd. YOU can push back through crowds and I know it isnt easy and it takes time and effort and maybe thats why you guys are pretending its impossible.

    If you get out of the crowd and stay away from police and do what they say then they arent going to hurt you.
    I don't believe I misquoted you. If I misunderstood you, please do tell me how so.

    I don't know which guy you are referring to.

    I did push through the crowds and was unhurt and was very lucky to have avoided contact with the police.

    I am merely saying that it was difficult to do so, I was lucky to do so and due to sheer numbers of people, it would not have been possible for everyone to do so. And some people tried to do the same as me but were beaten and verbally abused by police and told to 'GET BACK, GET BACK WHERE YOU BELONG.', cue beatings.

    I would also like to note that some people did obey the police etc but were still beaten.

    What about the rows of people sitting across the street on Whitehall because they were not allowed out? No press took photos of this, and they were beaten whilst sitting down. How on earth do they pose a threat to the anyone? Why were they beaten by police with batons?
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Did I quote you on the subject of paint? No. Did I respond directly to you? No. Was my post a general comment? Yes. Are we allowed to make general comments in D&D? Yes. I hope your genius brain can figure the idiot here.
    You gave an opinion on the use of paint, which I was the only person who mentioned it so obviously, with or without the quote box, you were still making a reference to what I had said about using paint as a method.

    :facepalm:

    I think you're the idiot.

    Please in the future do not quote or make a reference to anything I say. Just because there is no quote box doesn't mean its not related to what I'd said.
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    (Original post by Pads)
    4- people where getting let out,admittedly very slowly, but they had to be checked before doing so. Did you expect the police to let all the troublemakers just walk out and start a riot elsewhere?

    I've yet to see evidence of such random violence by the police apart from the wheelchair incident where you can see other police officers trying to stop the mad one. It seems to me that people need to realise that taking part in what was obviously going to turn into a riot is not the safest place to be and if you are wanting to be a peaceful protester RESEARCH what the official plan is and follow it.
    At various points people were NOT being let out. There was not a systematic system of check in place. I was told by one officer that I would be checked before being let out.

    "What for, officer?"
    "For weapons."

    Um what? Yes, please feel free to inspect my edamame beans, London A-Z map, empty bottle of water, newspaper, purses and sunglasses.

    (for those who suggest I was unprepared, I was not)

    I was never checked and managed to get out.

    My friends were not allowed out until midnight and were not checked either.
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    (Original post by No Future)
    At various points people were NOT being let out. There was not a systematic system of check in place. I was told by one officer that I would be checked before being let out.

    "What for, officer?"
    "For weapons."

    Um what? Yes, please feel free to inspect my edamame beans, London A-Z map, empty bottle of water, newspaper, purses and sunglasses.

    (for those who suggest I was unprepared, I was not)

    I was never checked and managed to get out.

    My friends were not allowed out until midnight and were not checked either.
    Also why should they search you??? Until you have committed a crime they have no right to search you. Have you seen the work of the Love Police on youtube??? The guy is brilliant, really good social commentary about how those in Authority think they can boss you around when you haven't done anything wrong.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    With the clean-up of broken glass, charred benches and abandoned placards.

    Glasses were obviously broken by the students when they needed to defend themselves and rightly so.

    Charred Benches - the benches were obviously there so clearly these weapons were not premeditatedly brought to cause violence.

    Abandoned Placards - brought to protest peacefully - if they wanted to be violent they would have brought knives, guns, tasers and so on.

    Concrete Block thrown - obviously broken up on the spur of the moment in retaliation to the polices violent tactics.

    None of the things the students used were intended for violence when they first turned up - they were ever to be used for peaceful demonstrations or were in the area when they turned up and then later turned to weapons in retaliation to the police.

    Yet the police TURNED UP with batons, horses and riot shields - they clearly were coming for a riot and premeditated the attack.

    One 21-year-old literature student, using the alias raindance77, told the Guardian: "I am a girl of five foot two, I was pushed several times in the face, dragged on the floor and laughed at by police when I told them I had asthma. I asked a policeman where I could go to the toilet; he pointed at the floor by his feet. Another shouted: 'Move, *****, or I'll squash you with my horse.' "

    I heard things like this all day. The reason I am now sickened by the police force.
    Please put forward a valid suggestion as to what they do instead.
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    (Original post by ChrisBan)
    Please put forward a valid suggestion as to what they do instead.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_gun

    They can pick out targets with precision to arrest later and it will not hurt innocent people.

    Pepperball rounds
    Pepper-spray projectiles, commonly called pepperballs[2], are direct-fire paintball-like capsules filled with a pepper spray solution of capsaicin. They provide a longer range, more user-friendly way to disperse pepper spray. Many sorts can be fired from paintball markers. Other sorts are designed to be fired from specially-designed pepperball guns whose muzzle velocity is greater than a paintball marker: if the velocity is not high enough the projectile will not break. As a paintball impact is mildly painful, it can discourage rioters by itself, but the pepper spray incapacitates and discourages a larger number of rioters with each shot.

    Problem sorted. Hitting students with full force blows in the head is not the answer, neither is charging at them with horses like a scene out of the 300.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...-fees-violence

    Right the protesters were meant to cross the north side of Parliament Square., and go on from there.

    Many hundreds of police, dressed in fluorescent jackets and soft hats, but with riot helmets at their waists, were already standing shoulder to shoulder along the route, when the demonstration arrived in the square at around 1.30pm.
    Within 15 minutes the police line was breached by protesters throwing smoke bombs and eggs, and the crowd spilled across to occupy the whole of Parliament Square, pulling down temporary fencing in order to enter the green.

    Seems that there were small scuffles before that.

    The police kettled the protesters in parliament square, then began letting small grou out slowly. Violence flared up throughout the evening at various spots leading to the police letting people out much more slowly.


    SO although there was very little violence before entering parliament square, the police kettled them in there because the protesters were not actually allowed to enter the whole of parliament square the way they did, hence the kettle so the police could deal with the massive group of people.
    All parts highlighted in bold are false.

    "Within 15 minutes the police line was breached by protesters throwing smoke bombs and eggs"

    No smoke, don't know about eggs. No police line was breached, only the temporary fencing.

    "Seems that there were small scuffles before that."

    Nope.

    "began letting small groups out slowly"


    If by "let out" you mean take them to another area and kettle them there...
    Can't remember what the bridge is called.

    "very little violence before entering parliament square"


    There was no violence. I didn't witness any and I haven't seen any reports of any violence happening during the march.

    Odd, considering there were many a police officer to throw objects at. Wonder why they didn't?

    I'm going to say this again, the police had situated themselves inside, and nowhere near the entrances to P Sq. That would surely be the best option if you want to stop people from protesting in a certain place, block it off. But no, they let everyone in and then moved in from behind to kettle everyone.

    The high ranking police officer (forget her name) also said that they could leave via a road that was across the square from where the violence had erupted, but there are people saying the police would not allow anyone to leave from any point. Also how would they know on the ground know that there was any exit?

    Also, the reports from the police stating that the students who were kettled had access to toilets. Yeah...

    At the end of the day, if you kettle any group (regardless of who they are) and refuse those who wish to leave (children, pregnant women, disabled people and just anyone who has been peaceful through out) then expect tempers to boil over . Especially when those keeping you in the kettle are taking the piss out of you by telling you to piss where you stand if you need the loo, or by laughing when you tell them you have a medical condition and generally treating you like dirt (as yes the police do tend to do this to protesters who they have kettled).

    You'll get those who just snap and think '**** it and **** you'. Although I don't agree with throwing chunks of breeze blocks at the police, I can understand why someone would do it. The BBC showed demonstrators actually breaking the blocks, and it was well after the demonstration had been kettled - after protesters were stopped from leaving the Square and after they had been charged by police horses.

    (Original post by Pads)
    very naive seeing as previous protests had been kettled.
    That's indeed what I said. The only other protest I went to was "Millbank". I left before the riot police arrived.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    You gave an opinion on the use of paint, which I was the only person who mentioned it so obviously, with or without the quote box, you were still making a reference to what I had said about using paint as a method.

    :facepalm:

    I think you're the idiot.

    Please in the future do not quote or make a reference to anything I say. Just because there is no quote box doesn't mean its not related to what I'd said.
    It was a general comment on the idea of paint, not what you said in particular(or I would have quoted you).
    Do not quote me/reply to me again.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    It was a general comment on the idea of paint, not what you said in particular(or I would have quoted you).
    Do not quote me/reply to me again.
    Your wish is granted. This is the last thing I will say to you. I expect the same from you as well.
 
 
 
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